Non-magick Wiccans

[Fluffy]

Are there any Wiccans here who either do not practice magick or do not believe that it exists? I have heard of Wicca without the magick a few times now but I have never met anyone who practiced it nor read any books on the subject. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has any information on this topic .

 

[Circle_One]

I have a close friend who is Wiccan but doesn't practice magick. It is an extremely common misconception that to be Wiccan one must practice magick and she very often gets flack from fluffs who believe this misconception, constantly telling her she is not a "true" Wiccan because if she were, she would know that Wicca and Magick go hand in hand, but that simply is not the case. I am not Wiccan, but I do know a lot about it, as I do Wiccans who don't spellcast. I would be happy to answer any questions I am able to.

 

[Prima]

'tis true It's important to remember that just like any other religion, Wicca has its...sects, I guess you would call them. I practice Hawaiian Shamanic Wicca, which has magic as an integral part. I think it's more usual for there to be Wiccans who don't practice magic rather than ones who don't believe it exists. Also, there are different kinds of magic practices. I'd be happy to nose around and see if I can find an informative book or website about Wicca sans magick. I'd be happy to answer questions if you want me to, but I doubt I can give a satisfactory answer!

 

[Circle_One]

I think it's more usual for there to be Wiccans who don't practice magic rather than ones who don't believe it exists.

I'm not sure I'm in accordance with this statement Prima. Actually, on second though, I'm on the fence. I've met more people who claim to be Wiccan, but who also claim that one must practice magick in order to be Wiccan, than I have actual Wiccans who know the truth, but as I said, now that I think about it, the kids who claim to be Wiccan and assert that you must practice magick in order to be a "true" Wiccan, aren't truly Wiccan at all. If they were, they would know that is not the case.

I think I've just run into more fluffs than I have actual Wiccans.

I think the main misconception of Wicca is that Magick is the main part of the religion, when infact it is not. There are, of course, differing traditions that have magick as a main part of their practice, but for the most part, spellcasting and ritual performing in Wicca is on the back-burner. This misconception, IMHO, comes from all these hollywood media-ized versions of Wicca and Witchcraft that makes all these teenagers want to become a part of this religion as a means of practicing magick--which is where a lot of the fluffs I've ran into come in, I believe.

 

[Prima]

*blink blink*

But...I agree with you. What are you disagreeing with?

 

[Prima]

Oh, wait, on second thought, I see what you're saying. :jiggy:

 

[Circle_One]

No, I know. That is why I changed my statement. First I said I didn't agree, then I changed my mind, saying I was on the fence and going on to explain my reasoning--the fact that I've ran into more fluffs than actual Wiccans. Sorry for the confusion, I tend to ramble a lot in my posts because there's so much I want to get out and it all ends up coming out completely jumbled, lol.

 

[Circle_One]

Oh, wait, on second thought, I see what you're saying. :jiggy:

Yeah, see, it just takes time to catch onto the confusing ramblings of C1

 

[Prima]

Yeah, it took me a while I've run into 'fluffs' too - they drive me nuts :banghead3

*blows you a kiss*

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Are we using the term 'fluff' to describe those drawn to Wicca because of media, or a way of describing 'happiness and light' pagans? (I know the term has been used to describe each, so I just wanted to make sure.)

 

[Prima]

I was using it to describe those who were drawn to it because it's 'cool' and because they want to be different than all of their friends, or because they're tired of Christianity and are just using it as...</rant>

 

[Circle_One]

I was using the term as a means of describing those kids who claim to be Wiccan because they were drawn to it from the sensationalizing the media has done to it, but really they have no knowledge of the religion at all.

Ex. Someone who claims to be Wiccan, but only chooses to be so, so they can perform "love" spells and such. When infact Wiccans don't perform love spells as it manipulates the free will of others and this is against the Wiccan rede.

 

[Circle_One]

Prima, I do believe you and I have many of the same gripes and rants with regards to sensationalized Wicca and its' fluffy followers.

 

[kreeden]

infact Wiccans don't perform love spells as it manipulates the free will of others and this is against the Wiccan rede.

That is good to hear Circle One . I'm not so sure that it can be said for all Wiccans though , but it is good to hear that there are those who respect the will of others .

 

[Circle_One]

That is good to hear Circle One . I'm not so sure that it can be said for all Wiccans though , but it is good to hear that there are those who respect the will of others .

Those who claim to perform specific love spells on a specific person are then not truly Wiccan Kreeden. Performing a love spell targeting a specific person goes against the Wiccan Rede "An' it harm none, do what ye will." This doesn't only mean physical harm. Tampering with someone else's free will is causing just as much harm as casting a curse on someone or physically harming someone.

If they claim to perform love spells, they are either lying about actually doing it, or are infact, not truly Wiccan.

 

[kreeden]

I would tend to agree with your interpretation of the Rede , Circle One . But when you come right down to it , that is what it is , an interpretation . Isn't it ?

Now , I don't mean to get into a debate over what a Wiccan is , or isn't . I am just glad that there are those who use Magic , and still respect the will of others .

 

[Circle_One]

I would almost guarentee that 95% of Wiccans will tell you they won't perform love spells because it is manipulating the free will of others and that is against their rede. I wouldn't say it is an interpretation Kreeden, it just is what it is. The Rede doesn't only mean physical harm to others, it also means emotional harm--which encompasses manipulation of free will. The other 5% of Wiccans who tell you they do perform love spells, are those that decided they wanted to be Wiccan because the Craft made it look so "cool."

Manipulating someone's free will also brings about bad karma because you are not allowing said person to live freely, but instead by your standards and desires. Wiccan (and most any other Pagan religion) try to live by dishing out only good karma. Manipulating free will not only goes against the Wiccan Rede, but also against the Karmic or Three-fold Law.

 

[Circle_One]

I am just glad that there are those who use Magic , and still respect the will of others .

More often than not, all Wiccan and Pagan religions respect the will of others moreso than other people because we believe we are equal to all other beings, whether they be people, animals, plants, minerals, spirits, etc. And so we practice our Magick with that very equality in mind.

 

[Fluffy]

Thankyou to everyone for your replies to this. What originally drove me from being a practicing Wicca was my inability to find any sort of Wicca which promoted a non-magick religion. Since I did not believe in magick (at least not in the sense in which I felt the majority of Wiccans believed), I felt disillusioned with my religion even though I knew that there were a few Wiccans who didn't believe in magick. It is very comforting to know that it is not as uncommon as I first thought.

Careful with the derrogatory use of fluff!!

I'd be happy to nose around and see if I can find an informative book or website about Wicca sans magick.

Thanks very much for the offer and I'd be happy to read anything you happen to know about the subject but don't go out of your way to nose around or I'll feel bad .

And thanks once again, this has helped me feel better with a problem that has been niggling me at the back of my mind for the better part of 2 years now .

 

[kreeden]

I had never thought of the Three-fold Law in that way C1 , but again , I would have to agree with you .

Now , I know very few Wiccans . I know a Witch or two , and quite a few who claim to be Wiccan , but I can't say if they are or not . I hate tags . And that is why I consider it all to be an interpretation . I mean no offence .

Fluffly , I found this thread quite interesting . I studied Witchcraft years ago , liked much of what I learned , but like you , don't feel that the pursuit of Ritual Magic was for me . Best of luck on your chosen Path .