Nontheist

[Nakosis]

Nontheism or non-theism is a range of both religious and non-religious attitudes characterized by the absence of espoused belief in the existence of God or gods. Nontheism has generally been used to describe apathy or silence towards the subject of gods and differs from atheism, or active disbelief in any gods.

I suppose I will have to consider myself a nontheist since atheism has been defined by many as someone who disbelieves in a God.

I an neutral about the existence of any God since I neither believe one exists nor disbelieve one exists.
Prior, imo, atheism ought to cover this since an "a" prefix usually means without. So an atheist is someone without a God such as someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in a God, however since it has been defined otherwise it becomes a matter of more confusion than necessary.

 

[Quintessence]

It can be a useful term to articulate a particular bit of nuance in the topic. As with all appellations, the usefulness is limited to within a particular culture and is assumptions held about the term.

If my experiences on these forums have taught me anything, it's that appellations about "belief" or "disbelief" or "rejection" of gods are utterly, utterly useless in our multicultural and diverse society. No offense to others who find those terms somehow useful. Maybe it would've been more useful back when most people were ignorant (or had good excuses to be ignorant) about theological and religious diversity. These days, we need far, far more precision when we're aware that gods have been literally everything across different cultures and historical eras.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Would not a rose by any other name yet smell as sweet?

 

[Windwalker]

I've been saying this for around a decade now here on this site. For instance, Buddhism is not an atheistic religion. Buddhists are not atheists. They simply don't look at and address the question of God. They simply focus on the higher nature of reality in a non-theistic manner.

They don't say, "I don't believe in the existence of God", the way those who self-identify as atheists do. Non-theism is neutral. Atheism is not neutral. It is declarative, A-Theism = No-God. That is a negative position on the question, not a neutral one.

Non-theism would seem more akin to agnosticism, but with subtle differences, in that for instance, while you may believe there is a God, you may not utilize that believe in a spiritual practice, such as Buddhism. Then it's not "I don't know", but it doesn't matter.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nontheism or non-theism is a range of both religious and non-religious attitudes characterized by the absence of espoused belief in the existence of God or gods. Nontheism has generally been used to describe apathy or silence towards the subject of gods and differs from atheism, or active disbelief in any gods.

I suppose I will have to consider myself a nontheist since atheism has been defined by many as someone who disbelieves in a God.

I an neutral about the existence of any God since I neither believe one exists nor disbelieve one exists.
Prior, imo, atheism ought to cover this since an "a" prefix usually means without. So an atheist is someone without a God such as someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in a God, however since it has been defined otherwise it becomes a matter of more confusion than necessary.

IMO, atheism and nontheism mean the exact same thing. Nontheism is just a euphemism to avoid the negative reactions that the word "atheism" gets in some circles.

 

[Nakosis]

IMO, atheism and nontheism mean the exact same thing. Nontheism is just a euphemism to avoid the negative reactions that the word "atheism" gets in some circles.

Whereas I would normally agree it has been define otherwise by many.

 

[ppp]

Nontheism or non-theism is a range of both religious and non-religious attitudes characterized by the absence of espoused belief in the existence of God or gods. Nontheism has generally been used to describe apathy or silence towards the subject of gods and differs from atheism, or active disbelief in any gods.

I suppose I will have to consider myself a nontheist since atheism has been defined by many as someone who disbelieves in a God.

I an neutral about the existence of any God since I neither believe one exists nor disbelieve one exists.
Prior, imo, atheism ought to cover this since an "a" prefix usually means without. So an atheist is someone without a God such as someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in a God, however since it has been defined otherwise it becomes a matter of more confusion than necessary.

You're not wrong. And I went by non theist for a while for that reason. But all too often when a conversation got down to the actual concepts of my position, my interlocutor would inevitably say, That means you are an atheist. And I was accused of intentionally hiding my atheism.

The choice, as far as I can tell, is to either be told that I am not a real atheist because I don't hold the positive belief that gods ate impossible. Or to later be acuused of deception for hiding my atheism.

 

[Yerda]

When I describe myself as an atheist I want people to conclude that I don't believe in gods - it's better that they recognise where I'm at.

I have a lot of time for some theistic positions but I don't believe any. For the most of them I'm pretty certain that no being exists that corresponds to their conception.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Whereas I would normally agree it has been define otherwise by many.

But here's the thing: any definition based on a single attitude toward "God or gods" in general is rooted in monotheistic chauvinism, even if we try to give a bit of lip-service to multiple religion by tacking on the "or gods" bit.

Every person has gods that they merely "lack belief" in; any given person is unaware of most of the gods humanity has ever believed in. Anyone who's given the issue of gods any serious though also has gods they actively reject.

The only way the distinction you describe in the OP works is if we take some sort of two-tier approach where there's some specific god (usually one named "God") and whether a non-believer actively rejects that god is what determines whether they're an "atheist" or a "non-theist."

... so your definition is only usable by people who accept this two-tier approach. It's useless to those who think that God-with-a-capital-G isn't special and is just another god out of the many that humanity has believed in.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Banter about the "real" meaning of

• atheist,
• a-theist,
• nontheist,
• secularist,
• humanist,

gets increasingly tedious over the decades.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Banter about the "real" meaning of

• atheist,
• a-theist,
• nontheist,
• secularist,
• humanist,

gets increasingly tedious over the decades.

Then add for all the debate of religious or not, you still have to add morality and politics at mininum.

 

[ppp]

Banter about the "real" meaning of

• atheist,
• a-theist,
• nontheist,
• secularist,
• humanist,

gets increasingly tedious over the decades.

This doesnt seem to be banter about the "real" meaning of those words, but more about what they communicate, how they are received, and how to best apply one or the other to one's self in social interactions.

 

[lukethethird]

I've been saying this for around a decade now here on this site. For instance, Buddhism is not an atheistic religion. Buddhists are not atheists. They simply don't look at and address the question of God. They simply focus on the higher nature of reality in a non-theistic manner.

They don't say, "I don't believe in the existence of God", the way those who self-identify as atheists do. Non-theism is neutral. Atheism is not neutral. It is declarative, A-Theism = No-God. That is a negative position on the question, not a neutral one.

Non-theism would seem more akin to agnosticism, but with subtle differences, in that for instance, while you may believe there is a God, you may not utilize that believe in a spiritual practice, such as Buddhism. Then it's not "I don't know", but it doesn't matter.

In the broader sense the a in atheism means without as in without theism, it is neutral. A broader definition of atheist would include Buddhists.

 

[lukethethird]

Banter about the "real" meaning of

• atheist,
• a-theist,
• nontheist,
• secularist,
• humanist,

gets increasingly tedious over the decades.

Fair enough, but some believers just can't seem to understand how it is possible that some just simply don't share in their beliefs.

 

[lukethethird]

Atheism= Gods are too stupid and moronic to exist even if they wanted to.

Non theism= please just don't confuse or associate me with believers.

agnostic= say what?

 

[ppp]

Atheism= Gods are too stupid and moronic to exist even if they wanted to.

Non theism= please just don't confuse or associate me with believers.

agnostic= say what?

Atheism = You say that some god or gods exist. I don't see any reason to believe you.

 

[Audie]

Nontheism or non-theism is a range of both religious and non-religious attitudes characterized by the absence of espoused belief in the existence of God or gods. Nontheism has generally been used to describe apathy or silence towards the subject of gods and differs from atheism, or active disbelief in any gods.

I suppose I will have to consider myself a nontheist since atheism has been defined by many as someone who disbelieves in a God.

I an neutral about the existence of any God since I neither believe one exists nor disbelieve one exists.
Prior, imo, atheism ought to cover this since an "a" prefix usually means without. So an atheist is someone without a God such as someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in a God, however since it has been defined otherwise it becomes a matter of more confusion than necessary.

We don't call someone who is not
Inflictrd with dementia a non or a-
dementiaist.

We call them normal.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Atheism= Gods are too stupid and moronic to exist even if they wanted to.

Non theism= please just don't confuse or associate me with believers.

agnostic= say what?

Atheism = number of gods believed in is zero

Non-theism = number of gods believed in is zero

Agnostic = believes that the existence of gods is unknowable

 

[PureX]

"Belief" has nothing to do with anything. And neither does religion.

Theism is a philosophical position based on the idea that God/gods exist in some way that matters to humanity.

Atheism is then the antithetical to that position: which would be that no God/gods exist in a way that matters to humanity. (I added the "matters to humanity" part because if God/gods existence has no effect on or significance to humanity, then the position AND it's antithetical are both moot.)

Non-theist is not a commonly used term because it's so unspecific that it could include nearly any "ism" or idea. It can be useful, however, in designating a position that neither accepts the theist position, nor rejects it. As in being undecided, or indifferent. However, this designates a personal position rather than a universal claim.

Gnosticism and agnosticism refer to a slightly different philosophical position based on the idea that we humans can know God's existence, and can know God/gods. This is a separate position from theism/atheism because both theism and atheism can be either gnostic or agnostic.

What any individual chooses to assume (believe) regarding these philosophical proposals and positions is infinitely variable and of no consequence to the logical validity of the positions, themselves. The word-labels don't define anyone's beliefs or 'unbeliefs'. The word-labels define the ideological propositions and counter propositions. How any specific human relates to those positions is up to them to clarify and justify as they see fit.

Religions are a collection of ideals, practices, rituals, stories, images, rules, and so on that people can use to help them live according to whatever theological position they choose to hold as their truth. Theism is to religion as music is to Celtic folk songs.

 

[ppp]

"Belief" has nothing to do with anything. And neither does religion.

Theism is a philosophical position based on the idea that God/gods exist in some way that matters to humanity.

Atheism is then the antithetical to that position: which would be that no God/gods exist is a way that matters to humanity.( I added the "matters to humanity" part because if God/gods existence has no effect or significance to humanity, then the position AND it's antithetical are both moot.)

Non-theist is not a commonly used term because it's so unspecific that it could include nearly any "ism" or idea. It can be useful, however, in designating a position that neither accepts the theist position, nor rejects it. As in being undecided, or indifferent.

Gnosticism and agnosticism refer to a slightly different philosophical position based on the idea that we humans can know God's existence, and can know God/gods. This is a separate position from theism/atheism because both theism and an atheism can be either gnostic or agnostic.

What any individual chooses to assume (believe) regarding these philosophical proposals and positions is infinitely variable and of no consequence to the logical validity of the positions, themselves. The word-labels don't define anyone's beliefs or 'unbeliefs'. The word-labels define the ideological proposition.

Ok. Now this conversation has become useless banter.