Norse and Greek Mythology

[The Sum of Awe]

Which one came first?

 

[jarofthoughts]

I think it is safe to say that the Greek mythology was earlier, perhaps as early as 800 BC or even earlier, while Norse mythology cannot reliably be said to be much older than 3-500 AC.

 

[Ravenheart]

Reading the prose edda you would see that Snorri Sturlson says that Odin was "born" in Troy. Knowing that we can assume that Troy (Turkey-Greece, and the Mediterranean continent) already had their (our ^^) pantheon of Gods at the time.

I'm in a chasm myself, strongly wanting to believe in the Greek pantheon but leaning towards the Norse one as of its stronger relation to the woods and Scandinavian climate. I feel its a shame though to ignore the Olympians, who almost shaped the whole world (that meaning that all the scientists, poets, politicians, warriors and mathematicians were born in Greece)

 

[lunakilo]

Which one came first?

Well the Greek stories wher written down at an earlier time than the norse ones.
Does that mean that the greek came first?

 

[Ravenheart]

Well the Greek stories wher written down at an earlier time than the norse ones.
Does that mean that the greek came first?

what else can it mean?

 

[lunakilo]

what else can it mean?

That the greek learned to write before the norse did

EDIT: None of the norse stories where written down before around 1000 AD (none that have survived at least) where as the greek ones where written down as early as 500 BC.
But who knows which stories the norse where telling each other in 500 BC. Just because they wheren't written down doesn't mean they didn't exist.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

The Norse religion itself probably originated around the same time as the Greek religion. The only difference is that Greece became a civilization before Scandinavia, leading to them writing down their myths and preserving them. The Norse myths were written down after the introduction of Christianity to Scandinavia, because the Northern Europeans did not write their stories down. They relied on oral traditions.

 

[Ravenheart]

Thus Klaufi, leading me to believe that the Greek mythology aka recon is superior in knowledge to the Norse. I mean no offense by that, I just want to debate. Please prove me wrong.

 

[lunakilo]

Thus Klaufi, leading me to believe that the Greek mythology aka recon is superior in knowledge to the Norse. I mean no offense by that, I just want to debate. Please prove me wrong.

I am not sure I understand what it is you mean.

Are you saying that the greek mythology is superior to the norse in knowledge?
If so what do you mean by that?
Are you sugesting that the greek stories contain more knowledge than the norse ones because the greek stories where written down earlier than the norse?

There is no question that the written greek stories are a lot older than the written norse stories. I am not sure what you can deduce from that though.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Thus Klaufi, leading me to believe that the Greek mythology aka recon is superior in knowledge to the Norse. I mean no offense by that, I just want to debate. Please prove me wrong.

I would say that the Greek people at that time had more knowledge in the areas of science and medicine, but do the Greek stories tell anything that much different than the Norse stories?

 

[Mata]

Thus Klaufi, leading me to believe that the Greek mythology aka recon is superior in knowledge to the Norse. I mean no offense by that, I just want to debate. Please prove me wrong.

Apples, oranges. They are two different cultures and mythos. It's like saying rap music is inherently superior to country music. While some people might feel passionate about both of them, I say no thanks to both

And, to be honest, conflating ancient mythologies with modern recon movements makes no sense at all.

 

[Ravenheart]

Yes by saying superior to knowledge I mean everything from medicine and science to magic and divination. Having been written before the Norse myths means that the Greeks knew how to write thus possessing more knowledge. I have a question too. Greece and Egypt where two countries that have strongly advanced the art of magic and divination such as necromancy and witchcraft. What about the Norse? What kind of magic except of runic divination and shamanism would they practice?

The Norse myths, they do have differences comparing to the Greek ones and that must be because of the climate. The Norse gods manifest more savage characteristics of nature such as the thunder or war and not so much knowledge or spirit. Whilst the Greek gods emphasize in wisdom, (maybe war and chaos such as Ares and Hecate) and passion. The one fits more to a cold climate where people advance more in the art of survivability and savagery (which I totally like thats why I'm in a chasm between the two) and the other fits to a sunny and calm climate where people are more advanced in thought and spirit...

How would you prove me wrong on that?
Thanks for your time,
Pete

 

[Mata]

Yes by saying superior to knowledge I mean everything from medicine and science to magic and divination. Having been written before the Norse myths means that the Greeks knew how to write thus possessing more knowledge. I have a question too. Greece and Egypt where two countries that have strongly advanced the art of magic and divination such as necromancy and witchcraft. What about the Norse? What kind of magic except of runic divination and shamanism would they practice?

The Norse myths, they do have differences comparing to the Greek ones and that must be because of the climate. The Norse gods manifest more savage characteristics of nature such as the thunder or war and not so much knowledge or spirit. Whilst the Greek gods emphasize in wisdom, (maybe war and chaos such as Ares and Hecate) and passion. The one fits more to a cold climate where people advance more in the art of survivability and savagery (which I totally like thats why I'm in a chasm between the two) and the other fits to a sunny and calm climate where people are more advanced in thought and spirit...

How would you prove me wrong on that?
Thanks for your time,
Pete

I pretty much agree with you (without the value judgments )

Germanic cultures weren't a good environment for ivory tower intellectualism like some ancient Greek city states were. Mostly because they had no use for them. What's the use of a philosopher in plowing a field?

Although that doesn't mean they had no philosophy or that they were simpletons by any means. It's just that only a fraction of their oral traditions have survived the Christianization. And that which HAS survived shows a world full of amazing social customs and rites that are focused around bettering your community.

And for the record in regards to the magic, there's no actual records of runic divination, heh. A lot of the time, in the Eddas and Sagas, when they use runes, they are using magical charms or symbols, that aren't necessarily the Elder Futhark, which is what we call "runes". They also practiced galdr, which was pretty dramatic. And you also have the infamous seidr. As well as the very popular practice of spaecraft, which is a form of divination similar to the oracles of Greece in some respects.

The only problem with your assertions is that you automatically assume that such things as "spirit" and "thought" have a natural superiority over other things. Such things are cultural values that have no bearing universally. Which is why it's impossible to say a culture is simply better than another. Because they are different, and in many respects they might score points, but overall, a overarching value judgment is useless.

I hope that clears it up my position some.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Yes by saying superior to knowledge I mean everything from medicine and science to magic and divination. Having been written before the Norse myths means that the Greeks knew how to write thus possessing more knowledge. I have a question too. Greece and Egypt where two countries that have strongly advanced the art of magic and divination such as necromancy and witchcraft. What about the Norse? What kind of magic except of runic divination and shamanism would they practice?

The Norse myths, they do have differences comparing to the Greek ones and that must be because of the climate. The Norse gods manifest more savage characteristics of nature such as the thunder or war and not so much knowledge or spirit. Whilst the Greek gods emphasize in wisdom, (maybe war and chaos such as Ares and Hecate) and passion. The one fits more to a cold climate where people advance more in the art of survivability and savagery (which I totally like thats why I'm in a chasm between the two) and the other fits to a sunny and calm climate where people are more advanced in thought and spirit...

How would you prove me wrong on that?
Thanks for your time,
Pete

Yes, the Greek people had more knowledge at the time, but their myths did not show any more (or less) knowledge than the Norse. They mostly focus on the same things, and tell the same things, though in different ways.

I would have to disagree with you saying that the Norse Gods manifest more savage characteristics. They do not manifest any differently than the Greek Gods. There is a God of Thunder (Thor, Zeus) and Gods of War, etc. Odin is the God of Wisdom and Poetry, and Freyr is the God of fertility and pleasure, so saying that only the Greek Gods focus on wisdom and passion is incorrect. Just because a climate is harsh, doesn't mean that people can't become advanced in thought and spirit. The average Norseman was a farmer, not a Viking, and as far as I know, sheep herders and farmers were not savage


There is no Greek God of sunny, beautiful weather (as far as I know haha) and there is no Norse God of harsh, winter weather. The reason the Norse people are always thought of as so harsh is due to the victims of the Viking raids, who were obviously biased. The reason that the Norsemen were not as scientifically advanced as the Greeks was because they had to spend their lives surviving, while the Greeks in a fertile environment had the spare time to ponder and involve themselves in philosophy and such. But the religions themselves really aren't that much different other than names of Gods and specifics in the myths.

 

[Ravenheart]

Agreed to almost everything you said Klaufi and thanks for the norse magic variations you suggested your opinions are really helpful

Although I still believe that knowledge and spirit is some kind of superiority when comparing two countries or humans.

Thanks again

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Reading the prose edda you would see that Snorri Sturlson says that Odin was "born" in Troy. Knowing that we can assume that Troy (Turkey-Greece, and the Mediterranean continent) already had their (our ^^) pantheon of Gods at the time.

I'm in a chasm myself, strongly wanting to believe in the Greek pantheon but leaning towards the Norse one as of its stronger relation to the woods and Scandinavian climate. I feel its a shame though to ignore the Olympians, who almost shaped the whole world (that meaning that all the scientists, poets, politicians, warriors and mathematicians were born in Greece)

And just as a side note, Snorri was a Christian who didn't want to let the old stories die. But to acknowledge the existence of other Gods would be a Hell-Sentence in his belief. So he humanized the Gods, thus saying that they were born in various different places. If you read the Poetic Edda, then you can see that Odin was not actually born in Troy.

 

[lunakilo]

The reason the Norse people are always thought of as so harsh is due to the victims of the Viking raids, who were obviously biased. The reason that the Norsemen were not as scientifically advanced as the Greeks was because they had to spend their lives surviving, while the Greeks in a fertile environment had the spare time to ponder and involve themselves in philosophy and such.

Well the norse did build some pretty awesome longships that where even capable of sailing the sea beond the Pillars of Hercules and not just sail around the Mediterranean.

It is probably correct that the greek had a better overall scientific understanding than the norse, but I don't see how you can make this claim based on the norse and greek mythologies.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Well the norse did build some pretty awesome longships that where even capable of sailing the sea beond the Pillars of Hercules and not just sail around the Mediterranean.

It is probably correct that the greek had a better overall scientific understanding than the norse, but I don't see how you can make this claim based on the norse and greek mythologies.

Well everyone knows that the Norse were superb shipbuilders! I was meaning more along the lines of traditional science/medicine, etc.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Well everyone knows that the Norse were superb shipbuilders!

Not to mention excellent sword-smiths.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Not to mention excellent sword-smiths.

Aye, that too. And the best storytellers.