Not slipping into delusion...

[Aldrnari]

As someone who actively seeks to understand, and even incorporate aspects of various religious paths into my life, I'm often tempted with the prospect of diving deeper into these religions. In the past, this has meant that slowly, I would start dismissing the things that didn't sit right with me in favor of the bigger religious picture, and then I would join this religion eventually (for better or worse).

It's a sure and easy road that results in delusion, I've learned. When you constantly sacrifice your personal values (no matter how small), it becomes easier every time you do it until you don't even realise you're doing it.

Ultimately, I've learned how to catch myself, and keep myself from settling for things that go against my nature. It's been a useful skill to cultivate outside of the religious realm (as any skill for self control is), but it hasn't come easy for me.

TLDR; How do you folks catch yourself from slipping into delusion? Empirical data? Holy text? Gut instinct? Life experiences?

What led you to this way you test? How confident are you in it's results?

I know everyone is deluded to some extent (we are a product of our environment), but sometimes breaking out of one delusion only entraps you into another delusion. How do you, from a first-hand perspective, catch yourself from doing so?

 

[Thief]

As someone who actively seeks to understand, and even incorporate aspects of various religious paths into my life, I'm often tempted with the prospect of diving deeper into these religions. In the past, this has meant that slowly, I would start dismissing the things that didn't sit right with me in favor of the bigger religious picture, and then I would join this religion eventually (for better or worse).

It's a sure and easy road that results in delusion, I've learned. When you constantly sacrifice your personal values (no matter how small), it becomes easier every time you do it until you don't even realise you're doing it.

Ultimately, I've learned how to catch myself, and keep myself from settling for things that go against my nature. It's been a useful skill to cultivate outside of the religious realm (as any skill for self control is), but it hasn't come easy for me.

TLDR; How do you folks catch yourself from slipping into delusion? Empirical data? Holy text? Gut instinct? Life experiences?

What led you to this way you test? How confident are you in it's results?

I know everyone is deluded to some extent (we are a product of our environment), but sometimes breaking out of one delusion only entraps you into another delusion. How do you, from a first-hand perspective, catch yourself from doing so?

so.....you're working on maintaining an open mind.....

atta boy

 

[sayak83]

As someone who actively seeks to understand, and even incorporate aspects of various religious paths into my life, I'm often tempted with the prospect of diving deeper into these religions. In the past, this has meant that slowly, I would start dismissing the things that didn't sit right with me in favor of the bigger religious picture, and then I would join this religion eventually (for better or worse).

It's a sure and easy road that results in delusion, I've learned. When you constantly sacrifice your personal values (no matter how small), it becomes easier every time you do it until you don't even realise you're doing it.

Ultimately, I've learned how to catch myself, and keep myself from settling for things that go against my nature. It's been a useful skill to cultivate outside of the religious realm (as any skill for self control is), but it hasn't come easy for me.

TLDR; How do you folks catch yourself from slipping into delusion? Empirical data? Holy text? Gut instinct? Life experiences?

What led you to this way you test? How confident are you in it's results?

I know everyone is deluded to some extent (we are a product of our environment), but sometimes breaking out of one delusion only entraps you into another delusion. How do you, from a first-hand perspective, catch yourself from doing so?

I am not clear what exactly you were did that made you vulnerable to slipping into delusion. Can you make it clearer.
Observe, experience, test, reflect, investigate, meditate. Not cling to any beliefs. Beliefs serve us, not the other way round. These are good ways to keep delusions to a minimum.

 

[Aldrnari]

so.....you're working on maintaining an open mind.....

atta boy

Heh, I guess I didn't think of it like that, but it's true.

In a world where information is constantly overloading us with everyone's skewed opinions, it does become difficult to stay open minded.

How do you best stay that way, if you don't mind my asking?

 

[Thief]

Heh, I guess I didn't think of it like that, but it's true.

In a world where information is constantly overloading us with everyone's skewed opinions, it does become difficult to stay open minded.

How do you best stay that way, if you don't mind my asking?

I was ....and remain..... a cynic

maybe it was the toss about childhood
maybe the bad neighborhood
and living with several really different relatives and their households......
plus a few other awkward livings

the only stability I could gain.....was my own
I have questioned everything.....trusted no one

and then I found that instruction somewhere in scripture

I figure I must be on to something

 

[Sunstone]

I suspect that one of the more important preventive measures a person can take against slipping into delusions is to continually cultivate self-awareness. This, however, is not nearly so well done via introspection as it is done though observing oneself in relationship to other people and things. For instance, I might conclude via introspection that I am a kind person, but then I might notice that I tend to behave in less than kind ways towards people. Introspection, in my experience, is the royal road to self-delusion -- although it is also perhaps the most popular method whereby people think they know themselves.

 

[Thief]

I suspect that one of the more important preventive measures a person can take against slipping into delusions is to continually cultivate self-awareness. This, however, is not nearly so well done via introspection as it is done though observing oneself in relationship to other people and things. For instance, I might conclude via introspection that I am a kind person, but then I might notice that I tend to behave in less than kind ways towards people. Introspection, in my experience, is the royal road to self-delusion -- although it is also perhaps the most popular method whereby people think they know themselves.

well posted....

maybe I should have included in my previous post......
if my hand does anything....
it's because I thought I should
or because I felt like it

my behavior has on occasion been a disappointment to others
as well as a standard they cannot ( or will not ) perform

 

[Aldrnari]

I am not clear what exactly you were did that made you vulnerable to slipping into delusion. Can you make it clearer.
Observe, experience, test, reflect, investigate, meditate. Not cling to any beliefs. Beliefs serve us, not the other way round. These are good ways to keep delusions to a minimum.

Well, I purposefully tried to keep it vague, since unpacking that would be a longer story... Buuuut.... Since you asked (just kidding, I'll keep it short-ish)!

See, I was raised Christian, and while I was Christian I had allowed myself to justify the things I didn't agree with (such as anti lgbt views); everyone falls for a similar trap at some point, whether they are christian or not.

Towards the end of my christian walk, those things began to surface, and I had to confront them. Eventually, I realised I just couldn't justify it any longer; I couldn't be intellectually dishonest with myself (honestly, who are gay people hurting?).

Due to that, and many other reasons, I decided to leave christianity. I became a seeker and discovered Gathic Zoroastrianism. It had so many of the elements I loved from christianity, without all the baggage. They just had this weird thing against idolaters as being evil doers, but I began to accept that as I delved deeper into the religion.

Honestly, I didn't really know anything about Idolatry. Was it truly an evil practice? Eventually, I had to check and see.

Thankfully I caught myself again before becoming deluded into accepting things I didn't agree with, because once you make concessions for something small, it becomes easier to concede larger things you disagree with, until I would just be repeating what I did in my christian walk all over again.

Since then I haven't settled for one specific path but my own. Instead, though, I have been just plucking out the useful things rather than delving too deeply, and just going my own way.

It doesn't seem to make much sense to look for a path that just reaffirms my views, anyways. I don't need to legitimize who I am to anyone but myself, when all is said and done.

 

[sayak83]

Well, I purposefully tried to keep it vague, since unpacking that would be a longer story... Buuuut.... Since you asked (just kidding, I'll keep it short-ish)!

See, I was raised Christian, and while I was Christian I had allowed myself to justify the things I didn't agree with (such as anti lgbt views); everyone falls for a similar trap at some point, whether they are christian or not.

Towards the end of my christian walk, those things began to surface, and I had to confront them. Eventually, I realised I just couldn't justify it any longer; I couldn't be intellectually dishonest with myself (honestly, who are gay people hurting?).

Due to that, and many other reasons, I decided to leave christianity. I became a seeker and discovered Gathic Zoroastrianism. It had so many of the elements I loved from christianity, without all the baggage. They just had this weird thing against idolaters as being evil doers, but I began to accept that as I delved deeper into the religion.

Honestly, I didn't really know anything about Idolatry. Was it truly an evil practice? Eventually, I had to check and see.

Thankfully I caught myself again before becoming deluded into accepting things I didn't agree with, because once you make concessions for something small, it becomes easier to concede larger things you disagree with, until I would just be repeating what I did in my christian walk all over again.

Since then I haven't settled for one specific path but my own. Instead, though, I have been just plucking out the useful things rather than delving too deeply, and just going my own way.

It doesn't seem to make much sense to look for a path that just reaffirms my views, anyways. I don't need to legitimize who I am to anyone but myself, when all is said and done.

Well done. Never compromise with your inner spirit.

 

[Aldrnari]

I suspect that one of the more important preventive measures a person can take against slipping into delusions is to continually cultivate self-awareness. This, however, is not nearly so well done via introspection as it is done though observing oneself in relationship to other people and things. For instance, I might conclude via introspection that I am a kind person, but then I might notice that I tend to behave in less than kind ways towards people. Introspection, in my experience, is the royal road to self-delusion -- although it is also perhaps the most popular method whereby people think they know themselves.

Very insightful. Thank you for that.

 

[sayak83]

Well, I purposefully tried to keep it vague, since unpacking that would be a longer story... Buuuut.... Since you asked (just kidding, I'll keep it short-ish)!

See, I was raised Christian, and while I was Christian I had allowed myself to justify the things I didn't agree with (such as anti lgbt views); everyone falls for a similar trap at some point, whether they are christian or not.

Towards the end of my christian walk, those things began to surface, and I had to confront them. Eventually, I realised I just couldn't justify it any longer; I couldn't be intellectually dishonest with myself (honestly, who are gay people hurting?).

Due to that, and many other reasons, I decided to leave christianity. I became a seeker and discovered Gathic Zoroastrianism. It had so many of the elements I loved from christianity, without all the baggage. They just had this weird thing against idolaters as being evil doers, but I began to accept that as I delved deeper into the religion.

Honestly, I didn't really know anything about Idolatry. Was it truly an evil practice? Eventually, I had to check and see.

Thankfully I caught myself again before becoming deluded into accepting things I didn't agree with, because once you make concessions for something small, it becomes easier to concede larger things you disagree with, until I would just be repeating what I did in my christian walk all over again.

Since then I haven't settled for one specific path but my own. Instead, though, I have been just plucking out the useful things rather than delving too deeply, and just going my own way.

It doesn't seem to make much sense to look for a path that just reaffirms my views, anyways. I don't need to legitimize who I am to anyone but myself, when all is said and done.

I am amazed that you found Zoriastrian practitioners.

 

[Aldrnari]

I am amazed that you found Zoriastrian practitioners.

Hah! It wasn't easy, but they're here.

I still keep up with the going ons in the Zoroastrian world from time to time... It's a beautiful religion, and it taught me a lot of useful things!

 

[sayak83]

Hah! It wasn't easy, but they're here.

I still keep up with the going ons in the Zoroastrian world from time to time... It's a beautiful religion, and it taught me a lot of useful things!

So right now where are you at in metaphysics, theology and praxis?

 

[Aldrnari]

So right now where are you at in metaphysics, theology and praxis?

Metaphysics? Ignorant. I've tended towards materialism, I've noticed, but I haven't done any research into metaphysics yet. I'm a little skeptical... I'd like to look into it in the future, though.

Theology? I would consider myself an open agnostic. I love the idea of God(s). I've had spiritual experiences, though they could have been biochemical reactions of the brain, so I can't trust that they are literally true occurrences. In general, gods seem man made to me, but that is what interests me. They are extensions and exaggerations of the human psyche, and it gives one much to think about. Could there be literal gods? It would be interesting to think so, though I'm not so sure they'd be anything like we've been able to dream up on earth- if they are real.

As for mythologies... I have my own. It's a fun hobby, a way to center myself, and it helps me in my practices (I'm a fan of esoteric knowledge and practice).

Praxis? I've never heard that before... Then again, I've never taken a philosophy class in my life. After a quick Google search, it seems to be the way one does something? Would you mean in the spiritual sense? I'd like you to unpack this a little for me, please.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I tend to the view that it is folly to have a firm grip on anything, apart from one's wallet.

And feedback is often the surest way to ensure one doesn't get too far from reality. I suppose the spiritual search is greater in some of us than in others but I gave that the boot long ago since the opportunities for false paths just abound like weeds in my garden. One can have essential core beliefs, which science usually provides and which is why I tend to follow progress in this area, and also in matters pertaining to the mind, apart from that, I have a general interest in most things, other than politics. And my intuition seems to be quite good overall, which I tend to trust so as not to be tempted into too esoteric ways of thinking.

And pragmatism tends to rule my life anyway.

 

[sayak83]

Metaphysics? Ignorant. I've tended towards materialism, I've noticed, but I haven't done any research into metaphysics yet. I'm a little skeptical... I'd like to look into it in the future, though.

Theology? I would consider myself an open agnostic. I love the idea of God(s). I've had spiritual experiences, though they could have been biochemical reactions of the brain, so I can't trust that they are literally true occurrences. In general, gods seem man made to me, but that is what interests me. They are extensions and exaggerations of the human psyche, and it gives one much to think about. Could there be literal gods? It would be interesting to think so, though I'm not so sure they'd be anything like we've been able to dream up on earth- if they are real.

As for mythologies... I have my own. It's a fun hobby, a way to center myself, and it helps me in my practices (I'm a fan of esoteric knowledge and practice).

Praxis? I've never heard that before... Then again, I've never taken a philosophy class in my life. After a quick Google search, it seems to be the way one does something? Would you mean in the spiritual sense? I'd like you to unpack this a little for me, please.

Yes. I meant spiritual practice.
It's nice you are exploring around. When you have time you could browse this excellent podcast on Western, Islamic, Indian and Chinese philosophy. I am sure it would be constructive.
Home | History of Philosophy without any gaps

 

[socharlie]

I am not clear what exactly you were did that made you vulnerable to slipping into delusion. Can you make it clearer.
Observe, experience, test, reflect, investigate, meditate. Not cling to any beliefs. Beliefs serve us, not the other way round. These are good ways to keep delusions to a minimum.

e.g. Christian fundamentalism vs Christian Gnosticism.

 

[Aldrnari]

Yes. I meant spiritual practice.
It's nice you are exploring around. When you have time you could browse this excellent podcast on Western, Islamic, Indian and Chinese philosophy. I am sure it would be constructive.
Home | History of Philosophy without any gaps

Hmmm... I guess, for the most part, my practices are based on various religions on the Indo European tree. From the good thoughts, words, deeds and Ashem Vohus of Zoroastrianism to the runic mastery and ancestor reverence of Heathenry (plus yoga, mantras, etc)- though I do put my own creative spin on them and make them my own. A lot of it is intertwined into various esoteric practices that I find useful. Spare's sigil work + rune work makes for some interesting results.

Most of my rituals are things such as morning rituals to get myself ready for the day, mantras to help me stay focused and energized at work, and journaling my experiences... Poetry, mythology, study and gathering ideas, etc etc. I'm a nerd and a weirdo for sure! I don't know how my gf puts up with me.

To me, spirituality is more psychological. Sigil work, for example, seems to work as a placebo as far as I know. As for the supernatural? Maybe, though I haven't seen enough to make a conclusion one way or the other, but I am leaning towards no.

Most importantly, the whole point is to strengthen myself so I can be of better assistance to those around me. To be the best employee I can be at work, to be the best bf i can be to my gf, to be the best person I can be to family and friends, etc etc, and to not get too comfortable and sedentary. That's my personal philosophy, at least.

 

[David T]

As someone who actively seeks to understand, and even incorporate aspects of various religious paths into my life, I'm often tempted with the prospect of diving deeper into these religions. In the past, this has meant that slowly, I would start dismissing the things that didn't sit right with me in favor of the bigger religious picture, and then I would join this religion eventually (for better or worse).

It's a sure and easy road that results in delusion, I've learned. When you constantly sacrifice your personal values (no matter how small), it becomes easier every time you do it until you don't even realise you're doing it.

Ultimately, I've learned how to catch myself, and keep myself from settling for things that go against my nature. It's been a useful skill to cultivate outside of the religious realm (as any skill for self control is), but it hasn't come easy for me.

TLDR; How do you folks catch yourself from slipping into delusion? Empirical data? Holy text? Gut instinct? Life experiences?

What led you to this way you test? How confident are you in it's results?

I know everyone is deluded to some extent (we are a product of our environment), but sometimes breaking out of one delusion only entraps you into another delusion. How do you, from a first-hand perspective, catch yourself from doing so?

Breathing. I stop for a moment breath, look at a tree, and then laugh. I would say all or virtually all mental disorders are related to a single region of the brain that has self labelled itself "higher functioning". Generally speaking it's this absolutely the most dysfunctional region of the brain. It functions on spectrum.

Friedrich and Carl Nietzsche are of great interest to me because both become completely mad. What interests me that neither psychology not philosophy as it tends to be taught has zero interest in that fact of both father and son going mad. It's as if going mad. Philosophy tends to pretend that Friedrich writings are separate from his madness! that's comical and profoundly clueless. Friedrich is the philosophical non believer to the theologian believer his father. Friedrich father died mad at 35 when Friedrich was 5, his father was a priest. That is a fascinating bit of history ignored. Friedrich was very very close to his father.

So madness tends for some to begin to manifest into observation starting in the region of the brain "I believe, I don't believe". It's a singular region that is curiously fked up more ☎ . Neither seem to remotely understand . There always is a disconnect from ❄. Which btw John muir always started where the Nietzsches totally ignored which was the mountains, the trees, and to breathe. ..

 

[Axe Elf]

Let me make a counterpoint that slipping into delusion isn't necessarily a bad thing--as long as you are aware of it.

Essentially, EVERYTHING is a delusion to some extent. We don't apprehend the "real world" directly, we perceive it through faulty senses and process it through filters of experience and meaning. Whether you realize it or not, you are choosing what to attend to and thereby creating your own personal delusion all the time--and you can do this either passively or actively. When you do it passively, you are falling victim to the delusion and believing it to be reality. When you do it actively, you are participating in what Carlos Castaneda called "folly"--an intentional acting job that molds your reality.

For instance, when I used to have a job in the traditional sense, I would slip into the delusion that my work was important and that my very being (as well as the well-being of those with whom I worked) was dependent upon me being responsible and doing a Good Job at work. But I knew it was a delusion; when I was NOT at work I did not define myself by my job or by how well I did at it. (And believe me, I did well at it. I have sat with State governors and dined in the Senate dining room with the likes of Bob Dole and John Glenn in recognition of my accomplishments.) I hate public speaking, but I can slip into the delusion that I'm good at it when I need to be. I'm not a "people person," but I can slip into the delusion that I am the life of the party, when it benefits me to do so. I found that these states were qualitatively no different than my "natural" delusions that I hated public speaking and that I was not a people person, and I could move between them as needed.

So go ahead, slip into delusions--but be aware of what you are doing, and aim for the most useful delusion in every situation you encounter. Some of the more extreme delusions (like believing that the Earth is flat) are going to be less useful than others, but if you ever need to move unnoticed among other Flat-Earthers, it may still have its place.

"Not that I am implying that I was in any personal want, for I have learned how to be content (satisfied to the point where I am not disturbed or disquieted) in whatever state I am. I know how to be abased and live humbly in straitened circumstances, and I know also how to enjoy plenty and live in abundance. I have learned in any and all circumstances the secret of facing every situation, whether well-fed or going hungry, having a sufficiency and enough to spare or going without and being in want." --Philippians 4:11-12 (Amplified Bible)