Now that the FDA has approved the vaccine has it changed your mind?

[ecco]

And I'm trying to find any source that says that phd holders are the most vaccine hesitant and what I found was it was from a facebook self report that allowed people to claim whatever education they wanted? None of them were verified as being phd's.

Let's also be aware that there are Ph.D. degrees in philosophy and divinity and counseling and organizational leadership.

Let's also be aware that a person entering a career in biology or rocket science needs the knowledge that comes with earning the degree in order to be successfully employed. That is not necessarily the case for a Ph.D. in counseling or divinity.

 

[Kooky]

...and to worship the charlatans who come along and promise it to them.

Of course. We often tend to praise people who tell us what we like to hear, even when that message is fake, wrong and stupid.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The data doesn't like though. Places where you have large percentages of vaccination has fewer cases and less unvaccinated getting sick. The numbers show that it is working. The numbers show that it isn't perfect. But "not perfect" and "ineffective" are very very different things.
https://data.cdc.gov/widgets/9bhg-hcku
More than 100k people under the age of 50 have died to covid.

Of the covid vaccination deaths I could fine all three were over the age of 70 and had underlying conditions.

So the fact remains that the vaccine is millions of times safer than covid. It is effective in reducing or outright eliminating symptoms in the individuals who are infected. They shorten the time they spread the disease.

What part of this is concerning? At every single metric it is millions of times more likely to experience negative outcomes when unvaccinated. Not a single shred of evidence to the contrary has been provided.

Covid and a normal flu season were the same for under 18 and slightly higher for ages 19-50 and all of the sudden we are mandating vaccines, this is insanity.

 

[Friend of Mara]

Covid and a normal flu season were the same for under 18 and slightly higher for ages 19-50 and all of the sudden we are mandating vaccines, this is insanity.

This is objectively not true. On the higher end the flu kills at most 60k people a year. More than double that have died in JUST the under 50.
Go look up the numbers and bring them back here and tell me that again.

Edit. Couldn't wait for your numbers here they are.
Flu deaths in U.S. by age | Statista

Edit #2
It would take more than 50 years of flu deaths to make 1 year of deaths due to covid and the flu typically doesn't create long term issues after recovery that COVID most definitely does.

Edit #3 AND THIS IS WITH GLOBAL SHUTDOWN AND THE GREATEST COMBINED EFFORT OF EVERY NATION ON EARTH TO REDUCE THE NUMBERS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE! The number of people that would die to a regular flu with mandated masks, constant cleaning required by public places and job sites it would be significantly lower.

 

[ElishaElijah]

This is objectively not true. On the higher end the flu kills at most 60k people a year. More than double that have died in JUST the under 50.
Go look up the numbers and bring them back here and tell me that again.

Edit. Couldn't wait for your numbers here they are.
Flu deaths in U.S. by age | Statista

Edit #2
It would take more than 50 years of flu deaths to make 1 year of deaths due to covid and the flu typically doesn't create long term issues after recovery that COVID most definitely does.

Edit #3 AND THIS IS WITH GLOBAL SHUTDOWN AND THE GREATEST COMBINED EFFORT OF EVERY NATION ON EARTH TO REDUCE THE NUMBERS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE! The number of people that would die to a regular flu with mandated masks, constant cleaning required by public places and job sites it would be significantly lower.

2018-2019 data is for 1 year and the Covid data is for 1.5 years

 

[Friend of Mara]

2018-2019 data is for 1 year and the Covid data is for 1.5 years
View attachment 54394 View attachment 54395

Yeah. Your data supports my position. Which age group isn't off by several multiples?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If you fly with the pigs, you will not get covid either. Your "analogy" is seriously flawed because it is completely unrealistic. People have to go to work. Many in offices and stores. In the real world of the USA in August 2021, unvaccinated people are the ones spreading the disease, ending up in hospitals, and dying.



See the above comment about people and pigs.




You have zero chance of a drunk driver smashing into your car - if you ride in cars. You have zero chance of a drunk driver hitting you while you are walking or riding a bike - if you don't walk or ride a bike.

Hiding in your home may be effective but it is unrealistic. The realistic solution is to get people vaccinated and require proof of vaccinations for most activities. Then, if they don't want to get vaccinated, they are the ones who can stay in their homes and society can be 100% certain they will not infect anyone.

Who are they infecting? Everyone would be vaccinated. The unvax just be infecting themselves (the unvaxed is near 50% of the US population, so locking them up makes the vax can feel safe and proud they got rid of the problem.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Yeah. Your data supports my position. Which age group isn't off by several multiples?

And mine because no reason to close schools and businesses and have mandatory vaccines. Retirement age citizens could’ve been protected without closing the country.

 

[Friend of Mara]

And mine because no reason to close schools and businesses and have mandatory vaccines

It doesn't. It objectively shows that the numbers are incomparable. This is not a run of the mill flu and it is not only more infectious but far far far deadlier. What group in the above were comparable in numbers of deaths? Did you misread the 18-29 group for 2021 and the 18-50 in the earlier years?

 

[ElishaElijah]

It doesn't. It objectively shows that the numbers are incomparable. This is not a run of the mill flu and it is not only more infectious but far far far deadlier. What group in the above were comparable in numbers of deaths? Did you misread the 18-29 group for 2021 and the 18-50 in the earlier years?

No I didn’t 2018 -2019 was for 1 year and the other was for 1.5 years. If you look the 0-18 was less for Covid than in 2018-2019 and the 18-50 was more but not to the point to close everything down and mandate vaccines IMO. All should’ve been voluntary and not close down the Country.

 

[Friend of Mara]

No I didn’t 2018 -2019 was for 1 year and the other was for 1.5 years. If you look the 0-18 was less for Covid than in 2018-2019 and the 18-50 was more but not to the point to close everything down and mandate vaccines IMO. All should’ve been voluntary and not close down the Country.

It showed a drastic increase in every measure. Its not a 1.5 increase. Its much much greater than that.

Your point now seems to be "it wasn't enough of an increase". Your point before was "there was no meaningful change" is objectively wrong.

If we can move past the former point we can talk about your current point of "enough". What is "enough"? To me several multiples higher is "enough". Especially given the context that we have re-arranged the lives of nearly every person in the world specifically to counteract the pandemic. Even if we take the numbers 1:1 there is a drastic increase. My secondary point is that it would have been much much much worse if we didn't have lockdowns/masks/ect. However even if it wasn't a single bit worse what we currently have is far far worse than what we were dealing with before.

I see that as enough to get vaccinated and to attempt to get more people vaccinated. How bad does it have to get for you to agree things need to be done?

 

[ElishaElijah]

It showed a drastic increase in every measure. Its not a 1.5 increase. Its much much greater than that.

Your point now seems to be "it wasn't enough of an increase". Your point before was "there was no meaningful change" is objectively wrong.

If we can move past the former point we can talk about your current point of "enough". What is "enough"? To me several multiples higher is "enough". Especially given the context that we have re-arranged the lives of nearly every person in the world specifically to counteract the pandemic. Even if we take the numbers 1:1 there is a drastic increase. My secondary point is that it would have been much much much worse if we didn't have lockdowns/masks/ect. However even if it wasn't a single bit worse what we currently have is far far worse than what we were dealing with before.

I see that as enough to get vaccinated and to attempt to get more people vaccinated. How bad does it have to get for you to agree things need to be done?

And the point was that with vaccines there were many deaths and adverse reactions that you were ok with. But on the other hand for the under 18 crowd weren’t really affected any different than a normal flu season, the working class under 60 were more so but not to the point of closing everything down or making vaccines mandatory. So I see your view as inconsistent.
The working class under 60 were forced to close businesses and were ruined financially and that decision to close should’ve been theirs and not the government’s in my view.
How many politicians were financially ruined because of the shut-down? None

 

[Friend of Mara]

And the point was that with vaccines there were many deaths and adverse reactions that you were ok with.

The fact that there are not "many" is the reason I advocate for it. It isn't a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. You have an objectively better situation for vaccinated vs unvaccinated. The only deaths were of people in their 70's with health complications. And thats still 3 vs hundreds of thousands. They are not comparable situations.

But on the other hand for the under 18 crowd weren’t really affected any different than a normal flu season, the working class under 60 were more so but not to the point of closing everything down or making vaccines mandatory. So I see your view as inconsistent.

I argue that the working class under 60 experienced unprecedented amounts of harm to this virus compared to regular seasonal flus. How many deaths would be unacceptable for you? 2k deaths vs 100k deaths is pretty objectively bad. Do you disagree with that?

If you wanted to make an argument just specifically for those under the age of 18 I could be more sympathetic. But the problem with that argument is that we did see an increase in their mortality rate and this doesn't even touch on the potentially lifelong issues that contracting covid can bring. There is little to no evidence that healthy children of the appropriate age are harmed at all by the vaccine.

The only evidences of even slightly alarming issues were from complications with either pregnancy or heart conditions. Both of which were correlative not necessarily causative. And with the heart and blood conditions they fare WORSE with the actual covid rather than the vaccine.

The working class under 60 were forced to close businesses and were ruined financially and that decision to close should’ve been theirs and not the government’s in my view.
How many politicians were financially ruined because of the shut-down? None

So we are in agreement we need to do all we can to avoid further lockdowns? Then why are you at odds with the only prevailing method we have of that? I hated the lockdown. I am not suited for it. I like to go places and do things. I hate wearing masks. I hate it terribly because of the shape of my face and the fact I wear glasses means its nearly impossible for me to wear a mask for more than a few seconds without fogging the glasses.

I hate that our economy has dipped and things are now more expensive. I was going to travel to Japan and that got cancelled. I shoved out tons of money to secure an MCR reunion tour ticket that thankfully got refunded. We had a camping trip scheduled for the grand canyon. My father lost his job for 3 months. My mother contracted covid and now has permanent lung issues because she was an essential worker. My grandmother has had medical procedures pushed back by months because of how many covid patients have clogged the hospitals.

This sucks. This sucks soooo bad. I hate it. But the only way we beat the pandemic is by getting vaccinated and kicking the virus to the curb. This bullcrap of doing everything in one's power to make sure this pandemic lasts as long as possible is really stupid.

So if you too are against this lockdown and want things to go back to normal please do your part and get vaccinated if you are medically able and don't spread misinformation that will just make this whole situation worse.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I argue that the working class under 60 experienced unprecedented amounts of harm to this virus compared to regular seasonal flus. How many deaths would be unacceptable for you? 2k deaths vs 100k deaths is pretty objectively bad. Do you disagree with that?

Would prefer no one die but the risk should be the individual persons decision.

I argue that the working class under 60 experienced unprecedented amounts of harm to this virus compared to regular seasonal flus. How many deaths would be unacceptable for you? 2k deaths vs 100k deaths is pretty objectively bad. Do you disagree with that?

Wouldnt say unprecedented but more than normal and should’ve been their choice on the risk they take not the governments. In your view we might as well not drive an automobile because of the potential deaths and injuries. I don’t agree with the mandates and shut-downs. They don’t make sense to me. Many other people share my view and are sick of the government hypocrisy and attempts to control the people.

 

[ElishaElijah]

This sucks. This sucks soooo bad. I hate it. But the only way we beat the pandemic is by getting vaccinated and kicking the virus to the curb. This bullcrap of doing everything in one's power to make sure this pandemic lasts as long as possible is really stupid.

Vaccines won’t do it and you’re not going to rid the earth of Covid, you’re putting yourself in a lifelong dependency on booster shots and I’m not into that. I got Covid and my immune system is
protecting me and I have other treatments to use.

 

[ecco]

"The high demand for cars"

The reason new cars are hard to come by is because of a chip needed from China. Car manufacturers have thousands upon thousands of new vehicles setting waiting for that chip.

Wow! You actually came up with one example. Yay.

Now please explain why the Obama administration and the Biden administration are responsible for the chip shortage. Did Trump not promise to bring jobs to America? What did he accomplish in his four years in terms of getting chip manufacturing back into the US?

Trump made a big deal of Foxconn's plan to open a factory in Wisconsin. What happened?

In new deal, Wisconsin slashes controversial Foxconn subsidies 30-fold

Announcing plans to create of thousands of jobs in a key battleground state gave Trump something to boast about, and that may have helped Foxconn curry favor with the new administration.

But before long, it became clear that Foxconn wasn't going to hold up its end of the bargain. The company was supposed to build a factory based on the LCD panel industry's new Generation 10.5 standard, which uses enormous sheets of "mother glass" that are roughly 10 feet (3 meters) square. Each glass sheet is typically cut into several displays for use in large televisions. Making panels that large requires a large factory—the original deal envisioned Foxconn hiring as many as 13,000 workers in Wisconsin by 2032.
​

On the other hand...

The US produces just 12% of the world's computer chip supply. Here's why it's trailing China when it comes to manufacturing and how it plans to get ahead.

President Joe Biden is aware of the issue and the threats posed by relying too heavily on foreign manufacturing. As part of Biden's $2 trillion infrastructure plan, there's a $50 billion allotment for domestic chip manufacturing incentives.

In a Monday meeting, Biden said the key to navigating the current chip shortage crisis is to invest in the country's chip production.

"We need to build the infrastructure of today and not repair the one of yesterday," Biden said, according to NBC News. "The plan I propose will protect our supply chain and revitalize American manufacturing."


You never know if you don't actually look things up yourself.​

 

[SalixIncendium]

**MOVED TO COVID-19**​

 

[ecco]

I wasn't offering the most realistic solution,

simply stating that you do not need other people to be vaccinated to protect yourself 100% from the virus.

If you are vaccinated, have your mask on, and you are standing 12 feet away from me, why should you care if I am vaccinated or not?

Your first comment says it all. I'll repeat it in case you forgot you wrote it.

"I wasn't offering the most realistic solution"
​

Getting most people vaccinated is a realistic solution.

 

[We Never Know]

Wow! You actually came up with one example. Yay.

Now please explain why the Obama administration and the Biden administration are responsible for the chip shortage. Did Trump not promise to bring jobs to America? What did he accomplish in his four years in terms of getting chip manufacturing back into the US?

Trump made a big deal of Foxconn's plan to open a factory in Wisconsin. What happened?

In new deal, Wisconsin slashes controversial Foxconn subsidies 30-fold

Announcing plans to create of thousands of jobs in a key battleground state gave Trump something to boast about, and that may have helped Foxconn curry favor with the new administration.

But before long, it became clear that Foxconn wasn't going to hold up its end of the bargain. The company was supposed to build a factory based on the LCD panel industry's new Generation 10.5 standard, which uses enormous sheets of "mother glass" that are roughly 10 feet (3 meters) square. Each glass sheet is typically cut into several displays for use in large televisions. Making panels that large requires a large factory—the original deal envisioned Foxconn hiring as many as 13,000 workers in Wisconsin by 2032.
​

On the other hand...

The US produces just 12% of the world's computer chip supply. Here's why it's trailing China when it comes to manufacturing and how it plans to get ahead.

President Joe Biden is aware of the issue and the threats posed by relying too heavily on foreign manufacturing. As part of Biden's $2 trillion infrastructure plan, there's a $50 billion allotment for domestic chip manufacturing incentives.

In a Monday meeting, Biden said the key to navigating the current chip shortage crisis is to invest in the country's chip production.

"We need to build the infrastructure of today and not repair the one of yesterday," Biden said, according to NBC News. "The plan I propose will protect our supply chain and revitalize American manufacturing."


You never know if you don't actually look things up yourself.​

Its not any presidents fault. Its fire that happened at 2 plants that caused it

China
https://www.industryweek.com/supply...world-chip-supply-chain-rattled-by-china-fire

And

Japan
Automotive chip maker says it’s nearly recovered from blaze

 

[ecco]

Who are they infecting? Everyone would be vaccinated. The unvax just be infecting themselves (the unvaxed is near 50% of the US population, so locking them up makes the vax can feel safe and proud they got rid of the problem.

Right. By and large the unvaxxed are infecting, and killing, other people who are unvaccinated.

HOWEVER, the unvaccinated...

...are also infecting vaccinated people. Is it really necessary to tell you again that the vaccines are, at best 94% effective?

...are the primary breeding ground for the virus to mutate.

...are overloading hospitals and hospital staffs. People with illnesses are dying because covid patients take all the ICU beds.

Veteran dies of treatable illness as COVID fills hospital beds, leaving doctors "playing musical chairs" - CBS News

When U.S. Army veteran Daniel Wilkinson started feeling sick last week, he went to the hospital in Bellville, Texas, outside Houston. His health problem wasn't related to COVID-19, but Wilkinson needed advanced care, and with the coronavirus filling up intensive care beds, he couldn't get it in time to save his life.
Last Saturday, Wilkinson's mother rushed him to Bellville Medical Center, just three doors down from their home.
But for Wilkinson, help was still too far away.

...

Kakli told Begnaud that his patient was dying right in front of him. Wilkinson needed a higher level of care, but with hospitals across Texas and much of the South overwhelmed with COVID patients, there was no place for him.

​