Now that the FDA has approved the vaccine has it changed your mind?

[Friend of Mara]

Citation?

He sited a source specifically from an Israeli study that people who caught the virus and lived vs people who simply had the vaccine were 6x likelier to not catch it a second time. I don't know if that is true but it is known that you are 2x as likely to catch covid a 2nd time without any vaccine. So in that specific response I just did the math. Assuming his source is accurate it still means that if you get covid it is in the best interest of everyone to get the vaccine.

 

[Friend of Mara]

No. People take it when they want to. Some don't mind taking it early. A lot of people volunteered for COVID Vaccine clinical trails before it came out while others like myself never will participate in a clinical trial-COVID vaccine no different.

It just depends on the person. I just think it's justified people want to wait it out. Whether they are taking this choice for granted we really don't know. They may have good reason they may not. But no. I don't keep up with FDA drug approvals for meds etc.

The problem with waiting is that as long as a large percentage is unvaccinated the pandemic will continue. If the pandemic continues then the virus will mutate. Every time it mutates we are taking a gamble that it will mutate in a way where the vaccine is ineffective. So as a society an individualist response is not ideal.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The problem with waiting is that as long as a large percentage is unvaccinated the pandemic will continue. If the pandemic continues then the virus will mutate. Every time it mutates we are taking a gamble that it will mutate in a way where the vaccine is ineffective. So as a society an individualist response is not ideal.

Since the vaccine effectiveness wanes after awhile and booster shots are needed, how long would we need to stay vaccinated before we "know" if the virus stop mutating or not?

We can't control the virus so if cases drop and raise again we'd need a plan B even with 100% vaccinated. I think it would take awhile.

Here's something I watched this morning:

3:00 time

03:16
one thing that's true is if everybody is
03:19
vaccinated
03:20
then it becomes much harder to know what
03:22
harms have actually resulted from
03:24
vaccination
03:26
and so i know you have a skepticism
03:28
about yeah so yeah you've said that i
03:30
guess you said this to me before um
03:32
that requires a hundred percent like if
03:35
you really so if
03:37
what it sounds to me like you were
03:38
saying is that the
03:41
the push to get absolutely everyone
03:42
vaccinated um
03:44
could be an attempt to make sure there's
03:46
no control group
03:48

It's about Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying discussing the push of getting vaccines out and how the government (US) is going about it the wrong way.

(Side note: both are fully vaccinated so it's just a convo)

 

[Friend of Mara]

Since the vaccine effectiveness wanes after awhile and booster shots are needed, how long would we need to stay vaccinated before we "know" if the virus stop mutating or not?

It will stop mutating when the virus is no longer in circulation in our populations. Unfettered it will never stop mutating. Stamping out a virus requires immunization. If every available person got vaccinated tomorrow the pandemic would be over in a month.

We can't control the virus so if cases drop and raise again we'd need a plan B even with 100% vaccinated. I think it would take awhile.

We do have some degree of control. The issue is more we don't have control over misinformation and conspiracists that have become mainstream.

Here's something I watched this morning:

3:00 time

It's about Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying discussing the push of getting vaccines out and how the government (US) is going about it the wrong way.

(Side note: both are fully vaccinated so it's just a convo)

I stopped watching the second Ivermectin was mentioned. There is no available evidence that it works. The only reason people seem to think it will work is because the government said "don't poison yourself with animal de-wormer!" and in true toddler fashion conspiracists started drinking it by the gallon to wash down silica packets.

Perhaps we should invent a fake new vaccine that is still the same old vaccine and market it as a secret solution the government doesn't want you to know about. I just cannot fathom the mental gymnastics it takes for someone to believe animal de-worming medicine is the secret cure for covid while screaming for the hills away from the single most comprehensive and crafted immunization done in our lifetime.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It will stop mutating when the virus is no longer in circulation in our populations. Unfettered it will never stop mutating. Stamping out a virus requires immunization. If every available person got vaccinated tomorrow the pandemic would be over in a month.

They're saying vaxed can spread the virus too. I don't see it being the unvaxed fault as there present tactic to blame people towards vaxxing. I don't see it ending that quick. Wishful thinking in my opinion.

We do have some degree of control. The issue is more we don't have control over misinformation and conspiracists that have become mainstream.

I don't see that as a huge issue. It's the government using every means to find evidence of fault and justify action of blame. I bet half unvaxxed know the difference between conspiracy theories and facts....not just with COVID vaccines but anything health related.

I stopped watching the second Ivermectin was mentioned. There is no available evidence that it works. The only reason people seem to think it will work is because the government said "don't poison yourself with animal de-wormer!" and in true toddler fashion conspiracists started drinking it by the gallon to wash down silica packets.

I'd have to rewatch it. So far I know he's not promoting anything just raising about certain arguments and topics that come up he has opinions about.

Perhaps we should invent a fake new vaccine that is still the same old vaccine and market it as a secret solution the government doesn't want you to know about. I just cannot fathom the mental gymnastics it takes for someone to believe animal de-worming medicine is the secret cure for covid while screaming for the hills away from the single most comprehensive and crafted immunization done in our lifetime.

I've never heard that one before.

 

[Friend of Mara]

They're saying vaxed can spread the virus too. I don't see it being the unvaxed fault as there present tactic to blame people towards vaxxing. I don't see it ending that quick. Wishful thinking in my opinion.

We have the data on that now. Its no longer speculation. If everyone was vaccinated even if it was spreading somewhat if it isn't getting major holds in a host because it is being fought off even before symptoms appear its effect is dampened.

I don't see that as a huge issue. It's the government using every means to find evidence of fault and justify action of blame. I bet half unvaxxed know the difference between conspiracy theories and facts....not just with COVID vaccines but anything health related.

Now that is wishful thinking.

I'd have to rewatch it. So far I know he's not promoting anything just raising about certain arguments and topics that come up he has opinions about.



I've never heard that one before.

I went and re-watched it. It just felt like whining a bit. Though there is a point that resonated. That demonizing people who aren't vaccinated won't make them get vaccinated. Though not-demonizing them seems to have about the same effect so might as well speak your mind when it comes to the subject I guess.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Is there a box for how many got vaccinated because of the government extortion.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We have the data on that now. Its no longer speculation. If everyone was vaccinated even if it was spreading somewhat if it isn't getting major holds in a host because it is being fought off even before symptoms appear its effect is dampened.

For bot backed and unvaxxed. They both could spread the virus. We seem to be more concerned with the unvaxed though.

Now that is wishful thinking.

Hey. Prove me wrong. (Seriously)

 

[Moonjuice]

Many people said that. Their last words from their hospital beds were "Please give me the vaccine to make me better".

If anyone is at risk of being hospitalized if they catch it, they should absolutely take the shots. I would encourage them to do everything you can to stay away from people, wear your mask, get all the shots you can get, cover yourself in hand sanitizer if you want to. Protect yourself. Being 100% protected from the virus is entirely a personal responsibility. At this point, if you do everything necessary to protect yourself there is NOTHING anyone else can do to give you Covid. You do not need non-vaccinated people to protect you, you can and should protect yourself if you feel you need to be protected.

I exercise, take vitamins and have built a healthy immune system and that's why when I caught Covid it was incredibly mild. Some people just have weak immune systems. Other people choose to sit their obese butts on the couch, eat Doritos, pop pills, and take shots to try and stay "healthy". Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Friend of Mara]

For bot backed and unvaxxed. They both could spread the virus. We seem to be more concerned with the unvaxed though.

If everyone is vaccinated the fact that it has been spread doesn't matter because the number of sick will be fractional. Spreading infection rates are either above, below or equal to 1:1. If it is below 1:1 we end the pandemic. If its greater than 1:1 the pandemic grows. If its 1:1 exactly it never changes. If everyone was vaccinated we would by necessity have a less than 1:1 infection rate.

Hey. Prove me wrong. (Seriously)

TBH wouldn't even know where to begin with that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

TBH wouldn't even know where to begin with that.

Can you give me two or three points?

I mean when you say a statement of opinion or fact it helps to have some support if asked.

 

[Aštra’el]

No, my perspective remains unchanged. Long-term side effects (5 to 10+ years) have not been studied. No judgement here when it comes to whether or not an individual chooses to get vaccinated from Covid or remain unvaccinated from Covid.

 

[ecco]

On one side of the fence, there is scientific information that saves lives.
On the other side of the fence, there is misinformation that gets people sick and continues to let the pandemic rage on.

Why would I want to post "both sides of the fence"?

Because I post studies that are about both sides of the fence.

I just scanned thru this thread and found no studies that you posted regarding the effectiveness of the vaccine. Ditto the effectiveness of wearing masks. Ditto the harm caused by not getting vaccinated.

Not social media conspiracy garbage that is about both sides of the fence.

Nevertheless, I don't base what I post on other people's recommendations or habits.

 

[ecco]

Do you understand that when you get vaccinated or contract Covid, you body naturally eliminates the antibodies and created Memory B-cells and T-Cells and creates 100 time mores antibodies than the first time and the reason that it does that is so that your blood won't have too many anti-bodies roaming around?

Do you have a source for this?

Memory B-Cell | Ask A Biologist

Some of what you wrote is supported by the source you now posted. Some is not. Perhaps that is based on your misunderstanding of the article.

"you body naturally eliminates the antibodies" is not found in the article.
"so that your blood won't have too many anti-bodies roaming around" is not found in the article.

Those are the comments that caught my eye and led me to ask for your source.

 

[ecco]

No, my perspective remains unchanged. Long-term side effects (5 to 10+ years) have not been studied. No judgement here when it comes to whether or not an individual chooses to get vaccinated from Covid or remain unvaccinated from Covid.

We may not know the long-term side effects from the vaccines, but we do know the short-term side effects from the virus:

• Hospitalization
• Death
• Providing a host for the virus to mutate
• Taking up hospital beds that are needed for patients with non-covid related illnesses - heart attack, diabetes, accidents, etc.
• Prolonging and escalating the pandemic in this country when it could be all but over.

We also know the mid-term side effects from the virus:

COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects

but even young, otherwise healthy people can feel unwell for weeks to months after infection. Common signs and symptoms that linger over time include:​

• Fatigue
• Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
• Cough
• Joint pain
• Chest pain
• Memory, concentration or sleep problems
• Muscle pain or headache
• Fast or pounding heartbeat
• Loss of smell or taste
• Depression or anxiety
• Fever
• Dizziness when you stand
• Worsened symptoms after physical or mental activities

Maybe no judgment on your part. A lot of deserved judgment on my part.

 

[ecco]

We can't control the virus so if cases drop and raise again we'd need a plan B even with 100% vaccinated. I think it would take awhile.

It did take a while (Jan 2021). Then people were able to get vaccinated and mask and social distancing mandates were in effect (mid-june 2021). Then, with many people still unvaccinated Republican Florida Governor DeSantis revoked all mask and social distancing mandates. Now in August 2021 rates are higher than ever.

https://www.google.com/search?q=flo...457j0i390l2.4623j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Here's something I watched this morning:

Ohh. A really good reliable source - a blogger from his kitchen.

That is exactly your problem and the problem of millions of other people. You put more stock into what a blogger says than in what scientists know. That is a huge reflection on you and on a sizable portion of Americans. Disgustingly sad.

 

[Kenny]

Some of what you wrote is supported by the source you now posted. Some is not. Perhaps that is based on your misunderstanding of the article.

"you body naturally eliminates the antibodies" is not found in the article.
"so that your blood won't have too many anti-bodies roaming around" is not found in the article.

Those are the comments that caught my eye and led me to ask for your source.

OK... read it from another source...

I have tried to find it again... but the logarithms only bring up Covid... sorry.

 

[ecco]

Perhaps we should invent a fake new vaccine that is still the same old vaccine and market it as a secret solution the government doesn't want you to know about.

That may be the best solution yet. We could make a drinkable version of the vaccine and put it into various drinks.

Or, we could just tell everyone that is what the Government is doing.

 

[ecco]

Is there a box for how many got vaccinated because of the government extortion.

I would say zero got vaccinated because of Government extortion. Those people who belive the Government is extorting them, are the ones who don't get vaccinated.

I guess you consider it Government Extortion when the news shows interview doctors who work in hospitals where there are not enough beds and not enough doctors and nurses to care for the overflow of unvaccinated covid patients.

I guess you consider it Government Extortion when the news shows interview a doctor who watched a non-covid patient die because he couldn't get admitted because all the intensive care beds were full of unvaccinated covid patients.

I guess you consider it Government Extortion when the charts of new covid hospitalizations are on the increase and in some states, higher than ever before.


Perhaps you are one of those people who believe teaching young people evolution is Government Extortion. Perhaps that is what makes you so disdainful of Government Extortion and science.

 

[ecco]

If anyone is at risk of being hospitalized if they catch it, they should absolutely take the shots. I would encourage them to do everything you can to stay away from people, wear your mask, get all the shots you can get, cover yourself in hand sanitizer if you want to. Protect yourself. Being 100% protected from the virus is entirely a personal responsibility. At this point, if you do everything necessary to protect yourself there is NOTHING anyone else can do to give you Covid. You do not need non-vaccinated people to protect you, you can and should protect yourself if you feel you need to be protected.

I exercise, take vitamins and have built a healthy immune system and that's why when I caught Covid it was incredibly mild. Some people just have weak immune systems. Other people choose to sit their obese butts on the couch, eat Doritos, pop pills, and take shots to try and stay "healthy". Different strokes for different folks.

Your reasoning for why you got only a mild case of covid is only partially correct.

I agree that a good immune system is important. I never take the flu shots and I have never gotten flu.

However, the amount of covid particles that get into your system play a far more important role in the severity of the illness.

If you "inhale" a small number of particles, your immune system will probably kick in and prevent serious illness.

If you "inhale" a large number of particles, your immune system will be overwhelmed before it can produce enough antibodies.

That is the reason for getting a shot. It teaches your body about the virus and your body can react much more quickly.

In the early stages of the pandemic, many people in nursing homes died from covid. Being elderly, their immune systems were probably not as good as when they were younger. But, people living in nursing homes are in constant contact with one another and live in comparatively confined areas. They infected and reinfected each other.

Being at a football game on a windy day is a lot safer than being in a poorly ventilated office building or bar or restaurant or church.