Nudity v Violence

[metis]

Yesterday, there was a discussion here at RF on openly breastfeeding in public, and there were some who had reservations on that, which is fine & dandy I guess as far as it goes.

Also yesterday, my wife and I were watching "The View" that she watches regularly, and we were sucking [coffee], and on that program they were discussing teaching children about the birds & the bees, and a couple of the women were almost horrified about teaching their kids about this.

Quite a few years ago, I was reading a British book about what America is like, and at one point it said that America is a very violent society and that a visitor needs to be extra careful when visiting the U.S.

On prime-time television, we can see all sorts of blood and gore, sometimes quite graphic, such as on Scandal or Blacklist, etc., and yet showing a bare breast or, heaven forbid!, a vagina or penis can gain a network a fine.

Here at RF, we have seen numerous active threads dealing with guns, which kill and murder people, and yet my guess is that if we went with what the title of this OP is, it probably would be stopped.

Are we as Americans screwed up or what?

So, the question I have first is why do we allow so much of that which is violent for public consumption that our children are constantly exposed to but not that which my be about sex or even just nudity that causes basically no harm intrinsically? or does it?

Your thoughts?

 

[idav]

I think Americans are taught a type of sexual suppression that is generally dangerous to the individual and society. Then some folks end up acting out the suppression in various forms of sexually aggressive behavior.

 

[suncowiam]

Disclaimer: This isn't what this thread is about, but I'm using this as a device to move into something more important.

Yesterday, there was a discussion here at RF on openly breastfeeding in public, and there were some who had reservations on that, which is fine & dandy I guess as far as it goes.

Also yesterday, my wife and I were watching "The View" that she watches regularly, and we were sucking [coffee], and on that program they were discussing teaching children about the birds & the bees, and a couple of the women were almost horrified about teaching their kids about this.

Quite a few years ago, I was reading a British book about what America is like, and at one point it said that America is a very violent society and that a visitor needs to be extra careful when visiting the U.S.

On prime-time television, we can see all sorts of blood and gore, sometimes quite graphic, such as on Scandal or Blacklist, etc., and yet showing a bare breast or, heaven forbid!, a vagina or penis can gain a network a fine.

Here at RF, we have seen numerous active threads dealing with guns, which kill and murder people, and yet my guess is that if we went with what the title of this OP is, it probably would be stopped.

Are we as Americans screwed up or what?

So, the question I have first is why do we allow so much of that which is violent for public consumption that our children are constantly exposed to but not that which my be about sex or even just nudity that causes basically no harm intrinsically? or does it?

Your thoughts?

I don't see enough data to point to violent media as a cause. It makes sense, but the data just isn't conclusive.

Japan has one of the lowest homicide and gun violence rate, yet they have almost the same amount of violent media compared to US if not more.

Media Violence: Japan vs. America | Center for Media Literacy

Granted, the data there is a bit old. However, anyone that follows Japanese anime can attest to how violent and sexually explicit certain anime can be. I still get overly shocked and stunned from various anime. But again, Japan's actual violence is not correlated to their violent media.

In the end, I just don't know what to say...

 

[sun rise]

Is a trolling title in a good cause a moral act? - not that I'm trying to hijack the thread or anything.

 

[sun rise]

My answer to the fake and real question is "the missionary position"

 

[Valjean]

It strikes me as odd that in a society where any eight year old can access unlimited porn on the internet, network TV is now more puritanical about nudity than it was forty years ago.

 

[Sunstone]

What is frequently called America's "Puritanism" is misnamed. The Puritans were some of the more sexually progressive people of their age. In fact, they had so much premarital sex they'd put the blush on an American prude even today.

You can thank Henry L. Mencken, the social critic and newspaperman, for the notion the Puritans were prudes. He somehow got it in his head they'd been uptight about sex, and he popularized the notion.

The morality that people think of as "Puritan" is actually traced back to the Victorian age and specifically to the Victorian social class that was largely comprised of semi-skilled and skilled workers such as plumbers, carpenters, masons, and so forth. The other Victorian social classes had different morals than that class, but the morals of that class somehow came to be widely adopted by Americans.

Or at least that's what they were teaching us forty years ago when I took a course in the history of human sexuality at uni.

 

[metis]

I don't see enough data to point to violent media as a cause. It makes sense, but the data just isn't conclusive.

Studies of young children have shown that kids can much more easily relate to, and sometimes mimic, violent behavior they see but not so much sexual behavior as their sex hormones haven't kicked in so they can't relate to the latter. However, seeing violence is only one factor that could generate into increased violence as an adult, and some of these other factors may be more powerful in the long run.

Japan has one of the lowest homicide and gun violence rate, yet they have almost the same amount of violent media compared to US if not more.

Japanese society is very homogenous and has a long history of conformity whereas "the nail that stands the highest gets pounded down the quickest". I have had two friends that have lived there and what you say above is very much true as the Japanese are very heavy into "group think".

You've brought up some good points though, and it reminds me of what Gandhi used to say: "The truth is rarely simple".

 

[metis]

Is a trolling title in a good cause a moral act? - not that I'm trying to hijack the thread or anything.

I personally don't see it as being immoral, but whatever.

 

[metis]

My answer to the fake and real question is "the missionary position"

B-O-R-I-N-G.

 

[Sunstone]

My answer to the fake and real question is "the missionary position"

Interesting. I too frequently use a position associated with missionaries. That is, on my knees, praying for sex.

 

[Revoltingest]

It strikes me as odd that in a society where any eight year old can access unlimited porn on the internet, network TV is now more puritanical about nudity than it was forty years ago.

Wow....you must be watching different shows from mine.
But I admit losing track of which network is aired & which is cable.
Remember when Lucy & Ricky had to sleep in separate beds?
Contrast that with Married With Children & Deadwood.
TV sure has changed.

 

[suncowiam]

Studies of young children have shown that kids can much more easily relate to, and sometimes mimic, violent behavior they see but not so much sexual behavior as their sex hormones haven't kicked in so they can't relate to the latter. However, seeing violence is only one factor that could generate into increased violence as an adult, and some of these other factors may be more powerful in the long run.

Japanese society is very homogenous and has a long history of conformity whereas "the nail that stands the highest gets pounded down the quickest". I have had two friends that have lived there and what you say above is very much true as the Japanese are very heavy into "group think".

You've brought up some good points though, and it reminds me of what Gandhi used to say: "The truth is rarely simple".

Concerning data, I'm just saying that its conflicting, hence, why I don't consider it being conclusive.

As a parent, I try my best to monitor what my kids view and then rationalize with them concerning the content.

 

[metis]

Interesting. I too frequently use a position associated with missionaries. That is, on my knees, praying for sex.

And that has a historical basis as well, but it didn't quite make into Genesis:
Adam was quite bored being alone, so he asked God "Lord, I'm very bored, so is there a way you could make me a partner?".

God said "Adam, I'll make Eve for you", and so it happened. At first Adam was pleased, but then he sought out God and said "Lord, I really appreciate you making me Eve, but she's driving me crazy with all this talk, talk, talk! She almost never stops!".

God look Adam in the eye, winked, and said "Adam, go forth and multiply". Adam took off running, but shortly came back and said "Lord, what's a headache?".

 

[Vee]

So, the question I have first is why do we allow so much of that which is violent for public consumption that our children are constantly exposed to but not that which my be about sex or even just nudity that causes basically no harm intrinsically? or does it?

Your thoughts?

Personally I find violence a lot more dangerous than nudity. After all, a naked person doesn't even have where to hide a weapon. They might be distracting, but I doubt they'll cause much harm.
The way people perceive nudity depends a lot on their culture. In itself it doesn't cause any harm but if people were told their entire lives that it's offensive, every time they see a naked person they will feel offended.
It is funny how things are so different in certain countries. Here in France a lot of women go topless on the beach. It's so common that no one cares. For us, it's seen as normal. In other places a woman could get into serious trouble for taking her top off even if it's on the beach. We also have many places with unisex toilets. Older coffee shops and restaurants didn't have space for a toilet for each gender so they only have one for all customers. People go in and lock the door, that's all. No one cares, it's not an issue.

 

[icehorse]

Is a trolling title in a good cause a moral act? - not that I'm trying to hijack the thread or anything.

i'm occasionally accused of sensational OP titles. I see no issue with intriguing OP titles, this one doesn't seem like trolling to me? How do you draw the line?

 

[metis]

Personally I find violence a lot more dangerous than nudity. After all, a naked person doesn't even have where to hide a weapon. They might be distracting, but I doubt they'll cause much harm.
The way people perceive nudity depends a lot on their culture. In itself it doesn't cause any harm but if people were told their entire lives that it's offensive, every time they see a naked person they will feel offended.
It is funny how things are so different in certain countries. Here in France a lot of women go topless on the beach. It's so common that no one cares. For us, it's seen as normal. In other places a woman could get into serious trouble for taking her top off even if it's on the beach. We also have many places with unisex toilets. Older coffee shops and restaurants didn't have space for a toilet for each gender so they only have one for all customers. People go in and lock the door, that's all. No one cares, it's not an issue.

Since my wife is from Italy, we've been to the beaches there, and it's not at all unusual to see topless and even sometimes fully nude sunbathing. When we've been in Quebec, a place I truly love, there's also a lot of openness.

BTW, I'm half-French, and my family there came out of Honfleur. Unfortunately, I've never been there.

 

[sun rise]

i'm occasionally accused of sensational OP titles. I see no issue with intriguing OP titles, this one doesn't seem like trolling to me? How do you draw the line?

I draw it arbitrarily to suit my mood. If 'trolling' is not the best word, then substitute "false advertising".

 

[Nakosis]

Yesterday, there was a discussion here at RF on openly breastfeeding in public, and there were some who had reservations on that, which is fine & dandy I guess as far as it goes.

Also yesterday, my wife and I were watching "The View" that she watches regularly, and we were sucking [coffee], and on that program they were discussing teaching children about the birds & the bees, and a couple of the women were almost horrified about teaching their kids about this.

Quite a few years ago, I was reading a British book about what America is like, and at one point it said that America is a very violent society and that a visitor needs to be extra careful when visiting the U.S.

On prime-time television, we can see all sorts of blood and gore, sometimes quite graphic, such as on Scandal or Blacklist, etc., and yet showing a bare breast or, heaven forbid!, a vagina or penis can gain a network a fine.

Here at RF, we have seen numerous active threads dealing with guns, which kill and murder people, and yet my guess is that if we went with what the title of this OP is, it probably would be stopped.

Are we as Americans screwed up or what?

So, the question I have first is why do we allow so much of that which is violent for public consumption that our children are constantly exposed to but not that which my be about sex or even just nudity that causes basically no harm intrinsically? or does it?

Your thoughts?

Yes, I figured we Americans are pretty screwed up by our Protestant past.

Even knowing that it's hard to change how you feel.

I just accept that I'm screwed up and try not to let it adversely affect other folks too much.

 

[Frater Sisyphus]

I've always found it unsettling that human organs are considered to be evil and inappropriate* (compared to our faces, legs, arms etc, like animals?) yet violence is promoted in media (whether it's a kid's action movie, wrestling match or a full goreporn bloodspilling-fest).


*unless it's in the bedroom...


I find the psychology of all of this really, really, really interesting. Well, we are the only animals that have this problem though. damn, I had a good meme for this one, I'll try and find it....