Oðan

[Gargovic Malkav]

I'm not sure I understand the question?

I think she's talking about the title of this thread.

 

[The Hammer]

I think she's talking about the title of this thread.

That was one idea I had, but I'll wait until she lets me know.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not sure I understand the question?

I've not heard of Othan before (I don't know how to make the d-thingy).

 

[Ella S.]

Under interpretatio romana, Odin was identified with the archetype of Mercury/Hermes due to them both sharing close associations with wisdom, although I think this might say less about Odin himself and more about how ancient Hellenists viewed their own deities.

 

[Nimos]

Whichever levels you feel like expanding upon.

The wolves are Geri and Freki (both mean ravenous or greedy). The Ravens are Huginn and Muninn (thought and memories).

The spelling I used in the title is to accentuate the pronunciation of His name. Othan. The ð, is pronounced as a 'th'. I'm not sure if the runes are correct. They are in English, where they correspond to O, D, I, and N, respectively. But if you're following my pronunciation which is closer to the Norse pronouncing I think it would be spelled: ᛟᚦᚨᚾ in runes. O'th'a'n.

Edit: I've also seen it spelled ᚢᚦᛁᚾ. U'th'i'n.

I have never seen his name spelled Othan, where did you get that from (Country)?

Without being 100% certain, I think the original way to pronounce his name would be Othin

Udtale af Óðinn: Hvordan man udtaler Óðinn på oldnordisk, islandsk

If you click on one of the small white triangles. The first one is ancient Norse and the other one Islandic. My guess is that the islandic way of saying it is probably closer to how they would have said it. At least in Danish, you wouldn't originally pronounce the 'D' from what I know, but rather as you said ð would be "Th", it was first later in the middle ages that 'D' would be used, just like you would say it in English today.

So a Dane today would pronounce his name like this:
Udtaler af odin på dansk

 

[The Hammer]

I've not heard of Othan before (I don't know how to make the d-thingy).

It's just a pronunciation/spelling of Odin. Written the way it would have sounded in Old Norse.

 

[The Hammer]

I have never seen his name spelled Othan, where did you get that from (Country)?

Without being 100% certain, I think the original way to pronounce his name would be Othin

Udtale af Óðinn: Hvordan man udtaler Óðinn på oldnordisk, islandsk
If you click on one of the small white triangles. The first one is ancient Norse and the other one Islandic. My guess is that the islandic way of saying it is probably closer to how they would have said it. At least in Danish, you wouldn't originally pronounce the 'D' from what I know, but rather as you said ð would be "Th", it was first later in the middle ages that 'D' would be used, just like you would say it in English today.

So a Dane today would pronounce his name like this:
Udtaler af odin på dansk

I've heard it pronounced Othan, but I'd take your word that it's probably Othin.

 

[The Hammer]

I have never seen his name spelled Othan, where did you get that from (Country)?

Without being 100% certain, I think the original way to pronounce his name would be Othin

Udtale af Óðinn: Hvordan man udtaler Óðinn på oldnordisk, islandsk

If you click on one of the small white triangles. The first one is ancient Norse and the other one Islandic. My guess is that the islandic way of saying it is probably closer to how they would have said it. At least in Danish, you wouldn't originally pronounce the 'D' from what I know, but rather as you said ð would be "Th", it was first later in the middle ages that 'D' would be used, just like you would say it in English today.

So a Dane today would pronounce his name like this:
Udtaler af odin på dansk

I hear either an A or an I here. Depending on how I focus.

 

[Nimos]

I hear either an A or an I here. Depending on how I focus.

I clearly hear an 'i', and to me it sound a lot like the Islandic way of saying it in the link I gave. But then again, I have no clue how much we actually know about how they spoke back then or even how they figured out that it is "Othin" and not "Othan" or even "Othen" for that matter. And whether its just based on a guess.

But personally, I think saying "Othin" or Odin is probably best simply for clarification purposes as people would probably misunderstand it otherwise.

 

[Nimos]

I've heard it pronounced Othan, but I'd take your word that it's probably Othin.

This is completely different topic, but just something I find funny.

In Norse mythology, Heimdall (from Old Norse Heimdallr, [ˈhɛimˌdɑlːz̠]) is a god who keeps watch for invaders and the onset of Ragnarök from his dwelling Himinbjörg, where the burning rainbow bridge Bifröst meets the sky. He is attested as possessing foreknowledge and keen senses, particularly eyesight and hearing. The god and his possessions are described in enigmatic manners. For example, Heimdall is gold-toothed, "the head is called his sword," and he is "the whitest of the gods."

Heimdall from Marvel, fair enough that they want diversity and all, but... still
Imagine if they made a modern movie or book about Muhammed and he was described or played by a white guy. I don't feel that the Norse religion gets the same amount of respect as Islam does

Not that I mind, but I do find it a bit silly, given the description above about what he is said to have looked like

 

[Brickjectivity]

What does this statue mean to you?

It reminds me of you a little, with your woodcraft and outdoor skills.

I cannot now identify with such a mighty character. When I was younger I though of myself as potentially mighty. He's tall. He's got wolves serving him. He has no needs, no weaknesses. He probably knows how to use that spear.

What stands out to me are the spear and the belt buckle. Nice touch of fine detail.

What is funny to me is that I could imagine his hat, head and beard as an upside down root plant that's been pulled out of the ground.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

This is completely different topic, but just something I find funny.

In Norse mythology, Heimdall (from Old Norse Heimdallr, [ˈhɛimˌdɑlːz̠]) is a god who keeps watch for invaders and the onset of Ragnarök from his dwelling Himinbjörg, where the burning rainbow bridge Bifröst meets the sky. He is attested as possessing foreknowledge and keen senses, particularly eyesight and hearing. The god and his possessions are described in enigmatic manners. For example, Heimdall is gold-toothed, "the head is called his sword," and he is "the whitest of the gods."

Heimdall from Marvel, fair enough that they want diversity and all, but... still
Imagine if they made a modern movie or book about Muhammed and he was described or played by a white guy. I don't feel that the Norse religion gets the same amount of respect as Islam does

Not that I mind, but I do find it a bit silly, given the description above about what he is said to have looked like

The Marvelverse doesn't resemble the mythology hardly at all. Loki is Odin's brother, not Thor's. Hell(a) is Loki's daughter, not sister. Thor is also described as having a big belly in places so it's possible that 'fat Thor' is more accurate than muscle-bound Thor. But more importantly, the Norse gods aren't human and can look however they want to. Loki has spent much time being many people, and many sexes and genders, and animals. And shapeshifting is kind of a norm among other gods too.
In the comics the Asgardians are a sentient race of aliens which INSPIRED the old mythology, but were not 1 to 1 representations of them. So I don't mind.

 

[Link]

That all Prophets and Imams are always equated with "sorcerers" even though sorcerers can never succeed in performing similar or on par miracles.

 

[Nimos]

The Marvelverse doesn't resemble the mythology hardly at all. Loki is Odin's brother, not Thor's.

Loki is not the brother of any of them, he is half Jotunn.

But more importantly, the Norse gods aren't human and can look however they want to. Loki has spent much time being many people, and many sexes and genders, and animals. And shapeshifting is kind of a norm among other gods too.
In the comics the Asgardians are a sentient race of aliens which INSPIRED the old mythology, but were not 1 to 1 representations of them. So I don't mind.

Its only some of them that can shapeshift as far as I know, Loki and Odin. I don't personally care what they look like. But to me, it's sort of the same as getting a white guy to play Black panther or something because we need some diversity in that story as well. To me, that would be equally silly.

 

[Nimos]

I cannot now identify with such a mighty character. When I was younger I though of myself as potentially mighty. He's tall. He's got wolves serving him. He has no needs, no weaknesses. He probably knows how to use that spear.

Odin has weaknesses that are why you can relate to him.

Sitting on his throne, Hlidskjalf, with Frigg in the hall of Valhalla, Odin looked out across the whole world. But he wanted to know everything and gain wisdom and knowledge of things hidden from him. This was a desire that drove him to sacrifice himself.

He sacrificed his eye in Mimir’s well and he threw himself on his spear Gungnir in a kind of symbolic, ritual suicide. He then hanged himself in Yggdrasil, the tree of life, for nine days and nine nights in order to gain knowledge of other worlds and be able to understand the runes.

During his sacrificial actions, he saw visions and received secret wisdom. The magical knowledge he gained made him able to cure the sick, calm storms, turn weapons against his attackers, make women fall in love and render dangerous troll women harmless – often just with a look.

Odin was also a shapeshifter, meaning that he could change shape. He could fall into an ecstatic trance and send out his soul, allowing him to adopt the form of another person or an animal. While his body lay in a trance, he could travel as a bird or a four-legged animal, a fish or a snake, through all the worlds and to far-off places.

Odin is often portrayed as a charming man who enjoys drinking mead and wine. But he was accused of “unmanly behaviour” when he “beat the drum and practised prophecy”, something that was associated with women. The fact that he was a seer and a man provoked disgust in some quarters.

Besides that he both lies and deceives giants, so he is far from perfect, and he has a disability as well, only having one eye, he must be the most diverse god to have ever existed

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Loki is not the brother of any of them, he is half Jotunn.

You know what I mean, he was raised as a brother of Thor. In the original myth, not only is he Odin's blood brother, but they're *both* Jotunn.

Its only some of them that can shapeshift as far as I know, Loki and Odin. I don't personally care what they look like. But to me, it's sort of the same as getting a white guy to play Black panther or something because we need some diversity in that story as well. To me, that would be equally silly.

Lots of characters in norse mythology shapeshift, not just Loki and Odin. Aesir, dwarves, humans, etc.

To me it's not the same as getting a white guy to play a black character because black people are largely underrepresented in media and white people aren't. So when taking a fictional representation of a mythological shapechanging deity and adding a diverse cast, I don't mind.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Odin has weaknesses that are why you can relate to him.

I understand what you're saying but to me personally? No. Those don't sound like weaknesses to me. Him sacrificing his eye for a good cause sounds massively awesome. If Odin had sacrificed a foot or hand or both eyes I'd feel he was weakened. Even losing a big toe might weaken someone more than losing one single eye. But losing one eye to gain all of that knowledge is simply an unbeatable deal to me. I'd do it. I'd pick my weaker eye of course, but I'd do it. A one eyed person doesn't even qualify for disability (in the USA). No, you must lose a thumb or something like that.

Besides that he both lies and deceives giants, so he is far from perfect, and he has a disability as well, only having one eye, he must be the most diverse god to have ever existed

Lying is a power not a weakness unless you have to deal with the results of the lie. A good liar generally benefits. Its only when people cannot stop lying that they are deep in trouble.

 

[Nimos]

You know what I mean, he was raised as a brother of Thor. In the original myth, not only is he Odin's blood brother, but they're *both* Jotunn.

Yes, Odin and Loki have a blood oath, but I don't seem to remember that Odin treats him as a son, but rather that he simply accepts him, which makes it possible for him to live amongst the rest of the gods in Asgard. But you might be right, it's a long time since I read about them, but I have an impression that them being considered "brothers" is more of a movie depiction rather than what the mythology says, simply because they do things together.

To me it's not the same as getting a white guy to play a black character because black people are largely underrepresented in media and white people aren't. So when taking a fictional representation of a mythological shapechanging deity and adding a diverse cast, I don't mind.

Whether one color of the skin is represented or not, should be irrelevant, when we are talking about history and ancient times. These are old western history, just as Africa, Asia etc. have their own history with their own people and gods, representing them. It has nothing to do or at least it shouldn't have anything to do with skin color.

How do you think Japanese people would react if suddenly black and white people were "required" to play the roles of shoguns and other people from their history, simply because there need to be diversity? Or maybe change some of the Hindu gods, so they better reflect western culture?

But for some reason, it is perfectly fine to change western culture and history to fit everyone else's needs, due to diversity, but not so much the other way around.

Even if these gods could shapeshift, I doubt you will find anything even remotely suggesting that they would shapeshift into a Chinese person or whatever, as this is the Norse mythology. I even doubt that you can find anything in Norse mythology that refers to a specific group of humans.

Likewise, I doubt you could find an ancient African tale or story, that would even remotely suggest that they were talking about white people or Asian people.

And personally, I wouldn't want that, I would hate to see ancient history/culture being adapted to our modern diversity Hollywood standards, whether that is Norse mythology, African or Asian history/culture.

Same as what we see in Ring of Power, which is just ****ting all over Tolkien's work, I freaking hate it. I like that things stay original because that is when you can learn from them and where they are interesting.

 

[Nimos]

I understand what you're saying but to me personally? No. Those don't sound like weaknesses to me. Him sacrificing his eye for a good cause sounds massively awesome. If Odin had sacrificed a foot or hand or both eyes I'd feel he was weakened. Even losing a big toe might weaken someone more than losing one single eye. But losing one eye to gain all of that knowledge is simply an unbeatable deal to me. I'd do it. I'd pick my weaker eye of course, but I'd do it. A one eyed person doesn't even qualify for disability (in the USA). No, you must lose a thumb or something like that.

Well he did jump on the spear as well and hang himself

But I think one has to look at the story in such a way that Odin, obviously in search of knowledge and sacrificing his eye, also gave humans the understanding of runes or the written language at the time. So at least to me, I think it tells us something about what type of character and god he was.

Lying is a power not a weakness unless you have to deal with the results of the lie. A good liar generally benefits. Its only when people cannot stop lying that they are deep in trouble.

Well compared to other representations of gods, which are seen to be absolutely perfect, lying and being deceived are not exactly considered god material by most people. Because people want a god that is perfect and flawless, which no human can live up to or even dream of achieving.

Whereas the Norse gods, deal with a lot of the same issues as we humans do, they have the same type of flaws and end up in sort of the same situations. Obviously on a different scale. It's impossible, at least for me, to relate to something that is so far from being human or even human values that it somehow becomes pointless, because there is nothing to learn or get inspired by when the problems and issues we deal with, are not even remotely an issue for such being.

This is probably also why I find Norse mythology to be by far the most interesting depiction of gods ever created that I at least have read about.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yes, Odin and Loki have a blood oath, but I don't seem to remember that Odin treats him as a son, but rather that he simply accepts him, which makes it possible for him to live amongst the rest of the gods in Asgard. But you might be right, it's a long time since I read about them, but I have an impression that them being considered "brothers" is more of a movie depiction rather than what the mythology says, simply because they do things together.


Whether one color of the skin is represented or not, should be irrelevant, when we are talking about history and ancient times. These are old western history, just as Africa, Asia etc. have their own history with their own people and gods, representing them. It has nothing to do or at least it shouldn't have anything to do with skin color.

How do you think Japanese people would react if suddenly black and white people were "required" to play the roles of shoguns and other people from their history, simply because there needs to be diversity? Or maybe change some of the Hindu gods, so they better reflect western culture?

But for some reason, it is perfectly fine to change western culture and history to fit everyone else's needs, due to diversity, but not so much the other way around.

Even if these gods could shapeshift, I doubt you will find anything even remotely suggesting that they would shapeshift into a Chinese person or whatever, as this is the Norse mythology. I even doubt that you can find anything in Norse mythology that refers to a specific group of humans.

Likewise, I doubt you could find an ancient African tale or story, that would even remotely suggest that they were talking about white people or Asian people.

And personally, I wouldn't want that, I would hate to see ancient history/culture being adapted to our modern diversity Hollywood standards, whether that is Norse mythology, African or Asian history/culture.

Same as what we see in Ring of Power, which is just ****ting all over Tolkien's work, I freaking hate it. I like that things stay original because that is when you can learn from them and where they are interesting.

Asian people are also underrepresented in media so I wouldn't want white people, who are overrepresented, to take roles from Asian actors. The fact of the matter is skin color does matter. Being colorblind just means ignoring the unequal treatment that exists already.

But that's far afield of the op topic. No Norse pagans that I know of mind black people, Asians or others imagining the gods as a reflection of the and their physical qualities. It's just an argument used by the unfortunate number of white supremacists which have appropriated Odinism.

I also don't mind adding to Tolkeins work because he was **** poor at writing female characters, who were few and flat, so by all means add some women warriors. Let the nerds gripe. xD ...sorry once again off topic of OP.