• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Objective Morals Debate (Atheists only)

The Sum of Awe

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Do you believe in absolute good/evil? Do you believe in absolute morals?

How can you believe in absolute morals or something that is good or evil to everyone if you don't believe in an objective meaning to life?

Do you believe in an absolute meaning of life?

How can you believe in an absolute meaning to life if you don't believe in a God?

What I mean by absolute is that it applies to everything living.
 
The Sum of Awe

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
swamplizard said:
If it exists, it is good, notwithstanding the subjective as -
there is no alternative, only illusion; if one has the ability to judge, do so favorably.

best,
swampy
Click to expand...

That wouldn't work in reality, if everyone followed that, a guy could get away with murder and the police will say "That was good"
 
Penumbra

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Sum of Awe said:
Do you believe in absolute good/evil? Do you believe in absolute morals?

How can you believe in absolute morals or something that is good or evil to everyone if you don't believe in an objective meaning to life?
Click to expand...
Absolute, no. Objective, yes.

Do you believe in an absolute meaning of life?
Click to expand...
No.

How can you believe in an absolute meaning to life if you don't believe in a God?
Click to expand...
In what way would a god add an objective meaning in life? I don't view the two as related at all.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The Sum of Awe said:
Okay, I expected people to bring 'Hitler is absolutely bad though' in the debate but guess we are all agreeing.
Click to expand...
My problem is that I can't come up with any sort of moral precept that's even meaningful for every living thing, let alone true.

For instance, consider rape: I would agree that if we're dealing with a sentient creature, then rape is immoral. However, by the normal definition of rape (i.e. performing the sexual act on another party without that party's consent), bees rape flowers. Do I think that bees are immoral for pollenating flowers? No.

Or consider theft: the term "theft" only has meaning in situations where "property" has meaning. Do I think that the notion of ownership is universal to every living thing? Certainly not.
 
S

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
The Sum of Awe said:
Do you believe in absolute good/evil? Do you believe in absolute morals?
Click to expand...

I don't believe in absolutes, but I do believe in universal characteristics. I have faith that the personal morality of common individuals will and does tend to share several universal characteristics since its arising out of the same human nature. There are some variations and exceptions to this, such as sociopaths, but it works for the most part among regular folk possessing the ability to empathize. It's the belief in absolute morality that makes people think they have a right to impose their personal morality onto others rather than accepting slight variations among people while focusing on the common characteristics that help people naturally get along and help one another in practice. Morality becomes confusing whenever it's overly academic and theoretical, but rather pay attention to how you actually interact with people on a regular basis.
 
Last edited:
Penumbra

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Sum of Awe said:
What is the difference between Objective and Absolute?
Click to expand...
Objective morality: As in, some moral systems are superior to others relative to achieving certain goals. It is still context-specific, however. Not all moral systems are equally legitimate.

Absolute morality: Generally as how you defined it- applying to everyone in all cases.
 
The Sum of Awe

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Penumbra said:
Objective morality: As in, some moral systems are superior to others relative to achieving certain goals. It is still context-specific, however. Not all moral systems are equally legitimate.

Absolute morality: Generally as how you defined it- applying to everyone in all cases.
Click to expand...

Okay, objective morals don't make sense either since there is no objective goal of life.
 
Penumbra

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Sum of Awe said:
Okay, objective morals don't make sense either since there is no objective goal of life.
Click to expand...
There are, however, inherently more sensible goals than others.

The process of life is that life that is fit to survive often does, and that life that is unfit for survival eventually stops surviving. Morals that are unsuitable towards life, therefore are going to bring themselves to extinction.

Most people, even enemies, desire personal happiness for themselves and their allies. We're built to. Of the various moral systems, there are some that are objectively better at bringing about satisfaction and happiness to people than others.
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
I don't believe in absolute or objective moral principles. What's good for the lion is bad for the gazelle.
Even if there were such a thing as objective morality or purpose, our grasp of it could never be anything but subjective. So why confuse things by placing the source of our sense of right and wrong outside our own heart and mind?
 
9Westy9

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
Not sure if I should respond as I'm not an atheist. Very tempting though xD
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top