Odd Belief Of Early Christians

[Tumah]

That's exactly what a True Messiah does.

Not the part about overthrowing the High Priest. The Messiah comes from the tribe of Judah, he can't sit in the High Priest's chair.

 

[shmogie]

,

From TIME magazine January 27, 2020 p24

."HEAVEN ON

.EARTH​

Many people think you
go to heaven when you
die, bu according to
N.T. Write, professor
of New Testament
and early Christianity
at the University of
St. Andrews, that's
not what the early
Christians believed
"The point was not for
us to 'go to heaven.'
but for the life of
heaven to arrive on
earth" he explains"
​

According to current theology they got it all wrong. But why?
What do you think they understood that so skewed their belief?

.

.

There are denominations and Christians ( I being one ) who believe exactly what you attribute to "early Christians".

Much of early Christianity has been corrupted by the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[shmogie]

There were many early Christian factions.. They didn't agree on anything.

Name them. How do you know this?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Not the part about overthrowing the High Priest. The Messiah comes from the tribe of Judah, he can't sit in the High Priest's chair.

You're right...I conflated the desires of the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls, who opposed the then-current line of priests, with Jesus, who seems to have just wanted to return them to purity...

 

[shmogie]

The Jews of Jesus's time quite understood the term "Messiah", even if later Christians don't.
Tom

So, in your opinion. apparently based in deep theological reflection, what does the term Messiah mean?

 

[shmogie]

Still don't.

Before his death and resurrection, apparently none of his followers thought that he was going to die, arise and then come back sometime later. They expected him to live and to overthrow both the high priests and Romans and become King of the World.

Apparently. An interesting word to use in defining what Christ's followers believed. No, it isn't apparent. Christ had hundreds of followers, and He taught exactly how events were to unfold. So, your statement is simply unfounded.

I am always amused by those folk who seemingly have little grounding in the NT, pontificating about it, then giving likes and winners to one another.

The blind leading the blind.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Not so odd when you consider that the Jewish followers of Jesus believed that as the Messiah, he would usher in The Heavenly Kingdom, on Earth, in their lifetimes...

That came later in Christian history though.

 

[Sand Dancer]

The Jews of Jesus's time quite understood the term "Messiah", even if later Christians don't.
Tom

The Jewish Messiah was a man, not a god, so Jesus was not seen as god until later. Of course the Jews knew that Jesus was not Messiah.

 

[sooda]

Not so odd when you consider that the Jewish followers of Jesus believed that as the Messiah, he would usher in The Heavenly Kingdom, on Earth, in their lifetimes...

More like the end of temple Judaism.. so that was a new world for them.

 

[sooda]

The Jews of Jesus's time quite understood the term "Messiah", even if later Christians don't.
Tom

Yep.. They expected a warrior king like David who would vanquish their enemies.

 

[sooda]

Apparently. An interesting word to use in defining what Christ's followers believed. No, it isn't apparent. Christ had hundreds of followers, and He taught exactly how events were to unfold. So, your statement is simply unfounded.

I am always amused by those folk who seemingly have little grounding in the NT, pontificating about it, then giving likes and winners to one another.

The blind leading the blind.

Early Christianity was marked by factions who couldn't agree on anything.

 

[shmogie]

Early Christianity was marked by factions who couldn't agree on anything.

Prove it.

 

[sooda]

Prove it.

1. The Diversity Of Early Christianity | From Jesus To Christ ...
   www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/...
   No, it wasn't in the time of the early Christians. The early Christians had a hard time to discuss with each other, fight with each other to establish certain patterns and criteria for the ...
   
   
2. 
   

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I am always amused by those folk who seemingly have little grounding in the NT, pontificating about it, then giving likes and winners to one another.

The blind leading the blind.

And I am always amused by those folk who seemingly have little grounding in the NT, pontificating about how anyone and everyone who disagrees with them must not know know anything about the NT (or the old, or the history of religion...) and therefore must be blind, and following the blind...

 

[columbus]

Not the part about overthrowing the High Priest. The Messiah comes from the tribe of Judah, he can't sit in the High Priest's chair.

But the Jewish elite of the day were, apparently, pretty thoroughly corrupted by the wealth and power that resulted from working with the Romans. The messiah wouldn't be high priest, but neither would the ones in office at the time, I suspect.

So, in your opinion. apparently based in deep theological reflection, what does the term Messiah mean?

Obviously, there are RF members better able to explain. But the messiah was a human warrior king who'd save Judea from pagan oppressors, and return it to its rightful place as a top sovereign nation in the world.
Tom

 

[sooda]

But the Jewish elite of the day were, apparently, pretty thoroughly corrupted by the wealth and power that resulted from working with the Romans. The messiah wouldn't be high priest, but neither would the ones in office at the time, I suspect.


Obviously, there are RF members better able to explain. But the messiah was a human warrior king who'd save Judea from pagan oppressors, and return it to its rightful place as a top sovereign nation in the world.
Tom

Jews of first century Palestine were tearing each other to pieces.. the Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, Sicarri, Herodians and Essenes didn't agree on anything.. They fought each other and the Romans.

 

[Wandering Monk]

,

From TIME magazine January 27, 2020 p24

."HEAVEN ON

.EARTH​

Many people think you
go to heaven when you
die, bu according to
N.T. Write, professor
of New Testament
and early Christianity
at the University of
St. Andrews, that's
not what the early
Christians believed
"The point was not for
us to 'go to heaven.'
but for the life of
heaven to arrive on
earth" he explains"​

According to current theology they got it all wrong. But why?
What do you think they understood that so skewed their belief?

.

.

Because their hope was frustrated, so they had to project them into the heavens eventually.

 

[sooda]

Not so odd when you consider that the Jewish followers of Jesus believed that as the Messiah, he would usher in The Heavenly Kingdom, on Earth, in their lifetimes...

Well, it hits a snag with regard to prophecy.. Jesus was neither warrior nor king and he didn't defeat the Romans.

 

[Wandering Monk]

The Jewish Messiah was a man, not a god, so Jesus was not seen as god until later. Of course the Jews knew that Jesus was not Messiah.

In later eras, Messiah is semi-divine in Jewish literature. He is supposed to have been present at the creation of the world for instance.

R. Shim'on ben Laqish explained: "and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the water (Gen. 1:2) -- this is the spirit of King Messiah, as it is written And the spirit of the Lord will rest upon him (Isa. 11:2). By what merit will it [the spirit of the Messiah] come? ...by the merit of repentance." - Genesis Rabbah 2:4.​

 

[Tumah]

But the Jewish elite of the day were, apparently, pretty thoroughly corrupted by the wealth and power that resulted from working with the Romans.

If by elite you mean the king, perhaps. I'm not sure I've heard about any Jewish elite corrupted from power that came from working with the Romans.

The messiah wouldn't be high priest, but neither would the ones in office at the time, I suspect.

I think the High Priesthood had already lost it's strength and meaning once it was kicked out of the Sanhedrin many years earlier.