Oddities of Various Purana-s

[Ravi500]

I have seen that. And I have copy-pasted the conclusions from Wikipedia in one of my posts.The reasons given are too weak.

You copy pasted the ones with respect to the jews from mizoram , omitting some points as well.

Migration from Central Asia is a better theory, that is immediate neighborhood.

Migration from Israel is also feasible ,due to the presence of the famous silk route .

The documented jewish past, jewish sounding names in Kashmir, and the genetic links to jewish groups, as I mentioned, are not weak reasons.

 

[Ravi500]

The documented jewish past, jewish sounding names in Kashmir, and the genetic links to jewish groups, as I mentioned, are not weak reasons.

Here are some links in this regard....


Kashmiri genetics - History Forum ~ All Empires - Page 1

History of the Jews in Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Theory of Kashmiri descent from lost tribes of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. some settled in Kashmir and other places.

So, how many? One, two, ten, ten thousand, one hundred thousand?

I told him it can be because of his jewish ancestry.

There are Jews also with all kind of hair colors. I am aware of a few blonde Jews myself.

Now, don't you think there is are serious contradiction between the two parts of your post? 1. My aunt was a red-head because Kashmiris (I suppose you mean brahmins) are of Jewish ancestry? 2. You accept that there are jews with all kind of hair color. 3. You are also aware of existence of a few blonde jews yourself.

How is it that the red color of my aunt's hair makes all Kashmiri brahmins to be of jewish descent? Jews in 2000 years in spite of all hardships have not forgotten their traditions in other parts of the world. How is it that I do not find any jewish tradition among the Kashmiri brahmins? And how come they only have Vedic and Hindu traditions? How come that you find a Zeethyar temple, a Ganpatyar Temple, a Sharada Peeth which approved Sankara, the only one to enter from the South Gate, and a Khir (Ksheer) Bhawani temple in Kashmir and no synagogues? How is it that such a momentous event, the coming of Jews to Kashmir, in not at all mentioned in our books? I am waiting for your scholarly explanation.

 

[Ravi500]

So, how many? One, two, ten, ten thousand, one hundred thousand?

The ancient Jewish tribes may have settled over there in a few thousands. With time and more settlement, it has become a substantial population.

Now, don't you think there is are serious contradiction between the two parts of your post? 1. My aunt was a red-head because Kashmiris (I suppose you mean brahmins) are of Jewish ancestry? 2. You accept that there are jews with all kind of hair color. 3. You are also aware of existence of a few blonde jews yourself.

How is it that the red color of my aunt's hair makes all Kashmiri brahmins to be of jewish descent? I am waiting for your scholarly explanation.

Red hair is not a common hair colour in the rest of India.

By kashmiris, I do not mean kashmiri brahmins alone.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Nilmata Purana (complied c. 500–600 CE, and the most important book for Kashmiris) contains accounts of Kashmir's early history. However, being a Puranic source, it suffers from a degree of inconsistency and unreliability.[15][a] Kalhana's Rajatarangini (River of Kings), all the 8000 Sanskrit verses of which were completed by 1150 CE, chronicles the history of Kashmir's dynasties from mythical times to 12th century. It relies upon traditional sources like Nilmata Purana, inscriptions, coins, monuments, and Kalhana's personal observations borne out of political experiences of his family.

During the later Vedic period, as kingdoms of the Vedic tribes expanded, the Uttara–Kurus settled in Kashmir. .. In 326 BCE, Porus asked Abhisara*, the king of Kashmir, to aid him against Alexander the Great in the Battle of Hydaspes. After Porus lost the battle, Abhisara submitted to Alexander by sending him treasure and elephants. .. The kingdom of Abhisara finds reference in ancient Indian texts also. In epic times and Buddhist times, it had formed integral part of ancient Kamboja Mahajanapada. Old kingdom of Abhisara was basically situated in the Poonch, Rajauri and Nowshera districts of Jammu and Kashmir."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Kashmir#Historiography

* Abhira: Ahir? Hazaras? Trikuta rulers (Jammu), Also won part of Maharashtra from Satavahanas.

How come they do not mention jews? You mean the jews came and were accepted by the original brahmins of Kashmir as their own? You can however say that the color of my aunt's hair was due to some admixture with Greeks, Kushanas, or Huns. I see more possibility of that.

 

[Ravi500]

How come they do not mention jews? You mean the jews came and were accepted by the original brahmins of Kashmir as their own?

Yes, or else how will such similarities and genetic connections explained in the links above come to pass.

Why on earth would the traveling Arab historian Al Bironi in the 12th century write, "In the past, permission to enter Kashmir was given only to Jews."

Why should the Jesuit priest Monstrat write in the 15th century with respect to Kashmir, "all the inhabitants of this area who have been living here since ancient times can trace their ancestry, according to their race and customs, to the ancient Israelites. Their features, their general physical appearance, their clothing, their ways of conducting business, all show that they are similar to the ancient Israelites."

You can however say that the color of my aunt's hair was due to some admixture with Greeks, Kushanas, or Huns. I see more possibility of that.

And why is that then not prevalent in the rest of India then, where the Greeks, Kushanas and Huns were also present.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why on earth would the traveling Arab historian al-Biruni in the 12th century write, "In the past, permission to enter Kashmir was given only to Jews."

Why should the Jesuit priest Monstrat write in the 15th century with respect to Kashmir, "all the inhabitants of this area who have been living here since ancient times can trace their ancestry, according to their race and customs, to the ancient Israelites. Their features, their general physical appearance, their clothing, their ways of conducting business, all show that they are similar to the ancient Israelites."

And why is that then not prevalent in the rest of India then, where the Greeks, Kushanas and Huns were also present.

Then, why on earth Nilmat Purana and Rajatarangini do not mention jews? Perhaps the muslims told Monstrat this. By Monstrat's time, Kashmir must have been predominantly Muslim. And furthermore, Monstrat himself was an Abrahamic. Why would not he say such thing? Sikandar Butshikan (1389–1413 CE) was quite thorough in his repression of Hindus in Kashmir. I do see no reason to see a jewish connection in the name of Bandipore. I did not find Nabo and Mamre on a Google search. Pisgarh means a peak, that is a possibility, perhaps because of Muslim influence.

About the red hair color which might be because of Greek, Kushana, or Hun admixture, I can only say that the genes interaction must not have been very heavy. I have corrected al-Biruni in your post above. Please write it this, the correct way. You are asking me for explanations. Kindly spend some time to reply to my points also.

 

[Ravi500]

In the seventeenth century François Bernier, the scholar and traveler, who was in India from 1656 to 1668, was asked by Melchissedec Thevenot (1620–1692), a traveler and publisher, to discover if Jews had long been resident in Kashmir. Bernier reported that Jews had once lived here, but that they had converted to Islam. Nonetheless, as he put it:

There are many signs of Judaism to be found in this country. On entering the kingdom after crossing the Pire-penjale mountains the inhabitants in the frontier villages struck me as resembling Jews. Their countenance and manner and that indescribable peculiarity which enables a traveler to distinguish the inhabitants of different nations all seemed to belong to that ancient people. You are not to ascribe what I say to mere fancy, the Jewish appearance of these villagers having been remarked by our Jesuit Fathers, and by several other Europeans, long before I visited Kashmir. A second sign is the prevalence of the name of Mousa, which means Moses, among the inhabitants of this city, notwithstanding they are Mahometans. A third is the tradition that Solomon visited this country and that it was he who opened a passage for the waters by cutting the mountain of Baramoulé. A fourth, the belief that Moses died in the city of Kashmir, and that his tomb is within a league of it. And a fifth may be found in the generally received opinion that the small and extremely ancient edifice seen on one of the high hills was built by Solomon; and it is therefore called the throne of Solomon to this day.
​

 

[Ravi500]

Then, why on earth Nilmat Purana and Rajatarangini do not mention jews?

You yourself have stated the above scriptures are not reliable. Perhaps the jews may have come after this period when it was written.

Perhaps the muslims told Monstrat this.

Why should the muslims say this in the 15th century, and also in the 12th century by Al-Biruni !!

By Monstrat's time, Kashmir must have been predominantly Muslim. And furthermore, Monstrat himself was an Abrahamic. Why would not he say such thing?

Why should a Jesuit preacher have to say that a people in a certain region in India is Jewish. Why can't he say that with any other part.

And what does his being Abrahamic have to do with all this!

About the red hair color which might be because of Greek, Kushana, or Hun admixture, I can only say that the genes interaction must not have been very heavy.

So the genes intreraction was very heavy in Kashmir but not so in the rest of India. Highly unlikely !

I have corrected al-Biruni in your post above. Please write it this, the correct way.

Ok, I will write it as Al-Biruni .

 

[Aupmanyav]

You yourself have stated the above scriptures are not reliable. Perhaps the jews may have come after this period when it was written.

OK. So Indian writing is not reliable but the Arabic or French is?

Why should the muslims say this in the 15th century, and also in the 12th century by Al-Biruni !!

The new converted Muslims might have liked themselves to be associated with Middle-East.

Why should a Jesuit preacher have to say that a people in a certain region in India is Jewish. Why can't he say that with any other part.

More Kashmiris were fair than people at other places, therefore.

And what does his being Abrahamic have to do with all this!

Like 'you too are like us. Jesus was a jew, you too are jewish, so Christianity is just right for you'.

So the genes intreraction was very heavy in Kashmir but not so in the rest of India. Highly unlikely !

Yes, gene interaction was greater in North-West India. They were the first to receive the invaders and immigrants.

Ok, I will write it as Al-Biruni .

Still not wholly correct. It is al-Biruni and not Al-Biruni. From Wikipedia: Abū Rayḥān al-Bīrūnī and not like Al Capone. It is the same in Spanish, el español, Moor effect.

 

[Jaskaran Singh]

Still not wholly correct. It is al-Biruni and not Al-Biruni. From Wikipedia: Abū Rayḥān al-Bīrūnī and not like Al Capone. It is the same in Spanish, el español, Moor effect.

What is with this obsession with transliteration? The system of capitalization in languages, I think, is unique to Greek and Latin scripts (and all European scripts derived therein), whereas biruni isn't even a European-origin word. If you were to directly transliterate البيروني as originally written in lughatilaarabiyya, it would be like albyrwny, since there is no difference between a "capital" alif or a lowercase one (same is the case with bayt and all other arabic letters) and the takshil isn't usually written (stuff like sukuun, kasra, etc. are only used when absolutely needed to clarify the pronunciation, as you probably know). Also, the Wikipedia link spells it the Farsi way (and also the way we do it in Urdu), with the ye rather than yaa (the latter still has the two dots under it in aarabic when used at the tend) and on top of that removes the ada atta'arif (ال/al), leaving it only with بیرونی/biruni.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Jai ho, Jaskaran ji.