Oklahoma Republican Doesn't Like That You Can't Hit Kids ...Even Those with Impairments

[Kenny]

It's the way you're flaunting this idea she's having knee jerky triggered reactions.
It's poking at something that hurts and telling someone to quit being a wuss.
Except she said you aren't doing that but you kept jabbing with this triggered thing.

was that addressed to you?

She definitely did. She once told me she could replace me. But no, she was never abusive towards her kids.

I’m sorry that happened to you

Hitting people can never be done in love. Violence can never be done unto another as an act of love towards the victim.

Hitting is always wrong… Correcting with love is never wrong.

I have found that when done wrong, the children don’t agree with loving correction. When done right, the children agree with loving correction.

It's debated like evolution. It's not seriously debated in academic circles or among clinicians or researchers, it only has people who are frightenly too eager to hit children and encourage others to do it.

I disagree

It's debated like vaccines amd autism. No one worth the ink printed on their degree claims there's a link and there is no serious debate.

I disagree.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[Kenny]

Don't try to shift blame to me when you both
oppose hitting children, & then justify hitting
children.

I don’t agree with hitting children… I sounds like you aren’t open to what I am saying

 

[Revoltingest]

I don’t agree with hitting children… I sounds like you aren’t open to what I am saying.

Some things I disagree with.
Some things are unclear.
In your opinion, does the Bible
say to spare or use the rod?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ironically, the Bible says something to the effect of "out abudance of the heart, the mouth speaks" (Matthew 12:33–35; Matthew 15:18–19; Luke 6:45). To be honest, I would think that a pastor would be familiar with these scriptures, would know better than to post sarcastic and unkind remarks, and would want to set a better example for others to follow. I think that it is sad that a pastor has to be reminded of these biblical teachings, whether online or in person.

Yeah, poking at digging at someone's pain is unbecoming for anyone. It's mean, it's cruel, it's emotional venom.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Hitting people can never be done in love. Violence can never be done unto another as an act of love towards the victim.

I think it is truly sad that some children, and even adults, are conditioned (indoctrinated) to believe that it is acceptable for their parents to hit them as a form of discipline, that they may feel that they deserve to be hit for doing something wrong, and that their parents are demonstrating their love for them by hitting them. I think it's similar to an abused wife who believes she deserves to be hit by her husband because she did something wrong and upset him.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Don't try to shift blame to me when you both
oppose hitting children, & then justify hitting
children.
Please state whether you favor or oppose
corporal punishment based upon the Bible.

In my opinion, he is talking out of both sides of his mouth.

 

[Revoltingest]

In my opinion, he is talking out of both sides of his mouth.

I observe in many believers discomfort with
some of the things they believe, eg, the Bible
allows beating children, but it's hard to defend
in this era. Defense of Israel's genocide is
tough too....they must support Jews, but when
the Jewish State does wrong, they can't admit it.
They must blame someone else, Hamas, all
Muslims, &/or Palestinians.

 

[Vinayaka]

What I observe in many believers is discomfort
with some of the things they believe, eg, the
Bible allows beating children, but it's hard to
defend in this era. Defense of Israel's genocide
is tough too....they must support Jews, but
when the Jewish State does wrong, they can't
admit it. They must blame someone else,
Hamas, all Muslims, &/or Palestinians.

And ... in the case of assaulting children, the children are to blame.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

was that addressed to you?

Was it said in private?

I’m sorry that happened to you

You're missing the point that just because it's denied doesn't make it true. I would wager most abusive parents know abuse is wrong and claim they aren't abusive. These are wankers who rile their friends amd family up and get social workers targetted for harassment.

Hitting is always wrong… Correcting with love is never wrong.

I have found that when done wrong, the children don’t agree with loving correction. When done right, the children agree with loving correction.

Hitting someone is not "correcting with love." It's offering correction, it's not love, it is justifying the use of violence against a child.

I disagree

You can disagree all you want, there is no serious debate. Unless you wamt to count debate if the existence of big foot and nessy as serious.

I disagree.

We can agree to disagree.

When it comes to hitting children I refuse to agree to disagree with people who hit kids. It's wrong amd research does not support its use.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I observe in many believers discomfort with
some of the things they believe, eg, the Bible
allows beating children, but it's hard to defend
in this era. Defense of Israel's genocide is
tough too....they must support Jews, but when
the Jewish State does wrong, they can't admit it.
They must blame someone else, Hamas, all
Muslims, &/or Palestinians.

I didn't see much discomfort but rather mental gymnastics to turn Abraham going to murder his own son into something that of a deeply religoous man is admirable amd worthy of praise for following Jehovah's commands.
It's no different when it comes to beating kids. They euphemise the hell out of it, insist it is necessary to do and warn of dire consequences for not beating their kids, basically parroting the Bible. They even have the audacity to call it love like they work for Miniluv.

 

[Revoltingest]

I didn't see much discomfort but rather mental gymnastics....

The former causes the latter.

 

[fantome profane]

In your opinion, does the Bible
say to spare or use the rod?

The question is how is the rod intended to be used. This is a shepherd metaphor we are dealing with here. And shepherds do not generally hit or beat the sheep with the rod, or at least the good ones don't.

 

[Revoltingest]

The question is how is the rod intended to be used. This is a shepherd metaphor we are dealing with here. And shepherds do not generally hit or beat the sheep with the rod, or at least the good ones don't.

Yours is one view.
There is diversity among Christians.
I'm curious what that one thinks.
Are you a Christian?
If so, how do you read it?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The question is how is the rod intended to be used. This is a shepherd metaphor we are dealing with here. And shepherds do not generally hit or beat the sheep with the rod, or at least the good ones don't.

If that's true how does it make a difference or matter to a Christian who believes in the necessity of a plain, simple reading of the Bible?

 

[fantome profane]

Yours is one view.
There is diversity among Christians.

And that is my point. You should ask what they think it means and if they agree. Don't assume that it means violence against children, and don't assume that they assume it is violence against children.

And even if they do believe that that means violence against children (and I agree many do interpret it that way), you could perhaps engage on whether or not that is the correct interpretation. That might be just marginally more effective than trying to get them reject the Bible.

Are you a Christian?
If so, how do you read it?

I am not a Christian, but I am capable of reading a metaphor and understanding it. The shepherds rod is generally used to nudge sheep, to "guide them in the way they should go". I believe that is what the author intended.

If that's true how does it make a difference or matter to a Christian who believes in the necessity of a plain, simple reading of the Bible?

I believe my interpretation is the plain, simple reading of the text. And of course many Christians will say that this is not what they were taught. But that is the point, they needed to be taught what the text means, I am just reading it. I know some Christians will respond that you need to be a Christian, "lead by the holy spirit" to interpret the text. Some people can never be reached. But that doesn't mean what I am saying isn't true, or that I shouldn't bother saying it.

And in this specific instance, we have @Kenny, a Christian saying he does not believe in hitting Children. I am not inclined to try to convince him that the Bible indicates otherwise, especially when this passage does not necessarily say that.

 

[Pogo]

If that's true how does it make a difference or matter to a Christian who believes in the necessity of a plain, simple reading of the Bible?

Plain simple reading in this as other cases is whatever the reader wants it to mean,

 

[Sargonski]

The question is how is the rod intended to be used. This is a shepherd metaphor we are dealing with here. And shepherds do not generally hit or beat the sheep with the rod, or at least the good ones don't.

Perhaps not generally .. but there is a time and place for the rod ... and good parenting dictates the rod in such circumstances.

 

[Kenny]

Some things I disagree with.
Some things are unclear.
In your opinion, does the Bible
say to spare or use the rod?

Let me translate that for you in today’s terms (since we know that the Jewish understanding isn’t “beat the child” and who would know better than the ones to whom scriptures were given to).

First, it doesn’t mean use it every day nor does it say that the rod is the answer to all things. The Bible says that the Word of God is the answer to all things.

Second, it doesn’t say “abuse, beat or hit the child” but rather, when necessary and sparingly, use it if you have to.

Third, it doesn’t say smack or use your hands - hands are for loving and blessing

Fourth, pastors don’t use the rod to beat every sheep or use it every day on a particular sheep.

Lastly, the scriptures doen’t say do it in anger for “Anger doesn’t produce the righteousness of God” - but do it in love.

There world will correct without love and their response will be emotionally hurt-filled because they will correct with anger. If there isn’t a correction that he will hear, he will rob more. Give me the right words to correct him and reach his heart.” (The rod is not an answer it is just a tool) - And somewhere, if words aren’t enough, you use a tool to reinforce your point so that the world doesn’t use their tools to bring correction. And you don’t hit him with anger, you just correct him with love. You don’t beat him with a rod, you reinforce the understanding that robbing has a consequence. Then you forgive, hug each other, and come out of the room as if nothing had happened.

That is a Bible complete interpretation of that scripture when taken as a whole and not reading into it what isn’t there.

 

[The Hammer]

And in this specific instance, we have @Kenny, a Christian saying he does not believe in hitting Children. I am not inclined to try to convince him that the Bible indicates otherwise, especially when this passage does not necessarily say that.

Yes but in other conversations @Kenny has admitted to spanking his children. And even backed his own spanking by his own family.

Spanking, out of love, discipline or punishment, IS hitting children.

 

[The Hammer]

Perhaps not generally .. but there is a time and place for the rod ... and good parenting dictates the rod in such circumstances.

As long as we aren't striking out with the rod.