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Old Earth vs Young Earth Debate
I don't think young earth creationism rises to the level of "theory". It's barely a guess.
As a result there's no "real" debate.
As to why I've "chosen" my side: Evidence.
The Genesis account does not state the timeframe between the creation of the "heavens and the earth" and the events that prepared the earth for habitation.
Genesis 1:1....."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
This is a singular statement.....a time when God created matter...the physical universe with all that it contains.
Then in verse 2 it speaks about the state of the planet before God began to work on it.....
"2 Now the earth was formless and desolate, and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep, and God’s active force was moving about over the surface of the waters."
The creative 'days' were not 24 hour periods, but could have been epochs of perhaps millions of years, wherein God accomplished by increments, all the creative processes he had planned.
The first thing God did was allow light to penetrate the darkness of the earth's surface. With the earth's rotation, light and dark became obvious and were named day and night. We have no way of knowing if humans knew about any of this prior to Moses writing of Genesis. The book of Job has some insights, but it too was written by Moses.
The Bible says that the earth at first was covered in water and then God created an atmosphere where eventually creatures would live and breathe the air( in just the right mixture of gases) that he created there. There was water on the surface of the earth and also above it. No air or water (vital for life) would ever escape into space because God created a way for it to be retained and replenished, perpetually.
Dry land would also make a division in the oceans and various forms of vegetation were the first living things to be created. That is not to say that bacteria wasn't created first, but not mentioned in the creation account. They were never supposed to be a problem for humans, but part of the process of recycling that God put in place to keep the earth from being engulfed by rotting dead material. "Nature" takes care of death by taking everything back into the earth to regenerate it. It was a masterful system....pure genius!
Then God apparently cleared away the remaining cloud layers so that the "luminaries" (sun, moon and stars that he created along with the earth) became visible in the sky for the first time. (Job 38:8-9)
By the 4th "day" things were ready for sentient creatures to appear....and finally man. So with each 'increment' of creation, preparation was made for what came next. By the time sentient creatures arrived on the scene there was already habitats, food, water and air ready for them. All they had to do was reproduce their kind to replace the ones that died naturally. The natural cycle of life and death in the animal kingdom ensured continued life for many other creatures.
The Bible's account makes plenty of room for an old earth and a very long creative process. It just depends on how you interpret the word "yohm" (day) It is clear that it doesn't just mean a 24 hour period because included in the Genesis account (chapter 2:4) which says...."This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven." The whole creative process is spoken of as taking place in one "day".
By the time of man's appearance, many creatures (like the dinosaurs) had become extinct, perhaps because they had served a purpose for a time and were no longer needed? God knows but he did not tell us all the details. I am sure he will one day.
Genesis 1:1....."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
This is a singular statement.....a time when God created matter...the physical universe with all that it contains.
Then in verse 2 it speaks about the state of the planet before God began to work on it.....
"2 Now the earth was formless and desolate, and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep, and God’s active force was moving about over the surface of the waters."
The creative 'days' were not 24 hour periods, but could have been epochs of perhaps millions of years, wherein God accomplished by increments, all the creative processes he had planned.
The first thing God did was allow light to penetrate the darkness of the earth's surface. With the earth's rotation, light and dark became obvious and were named day and night. We have no way of knowing if humans knew about any of this prior to Moses writing of Genesis. The book of Job has some insights, but it too was written by Moses.
The Bible says that the earth at first was covered in water and then God created an atmosphere where eventually creatures would live and breathe the air( in just the right mixture of gases) that he created there. There was water on the surface of the earth and also above it. No air or water (vital for life) would ever escape into space because God created a way for it to be retained and replenished, perpetually.
Dry land would also make a division in the oceans and various forms of vegetation were the first living things to be created. That is not to say that bacteria wasn't created first, but not mentioned in the creation account. They were never supposed to be a problem for humans, but part of the process of recycling that God put in place to keep the earth from being engulfed by rotting dead material. "Nature" takes care of death by taking everything back into the earth to regenerate it. It was a masterful system....pure genius!
Then God apparently cleared away the remaining cloud layers so that the "luminaries" (sun, moon and stars that he created along with the earth) became visible in the sky for the first time. (Job 38:8-9)
By the 4th "day" things were ready for sentient creatures to appear....and finally man. So with each 'increment' of creation, preparation was made for what came next. By the time sentient creatures arrived on the scene there was already habitats, food, water and air ready for them. All they had to do was reproduce their kind to replace the ones that died naturally. The natural cycle of life and death in the animal kingdom ensured continued life for many other creatures.
The Bible's account makes plenty of room for an old earth and a very long creative process. It just depends on how you interpret the word "yohm" (day) It is clear that it doesn't just mean a 24 hour period because included in the Genesis account (chapter 2:4) which says...."This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven." The whole creative process is spoken of as taking place in one "day".
By the time of man's appearance, many creatures (like the dinosaurs) had become extinct, perhaps because they had served a purpose for a time and were no longer needed? God knows but he did not tell us all the details. I am sure he will one day.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
True, there's not enough to make a theory about young earth. It's basically a mish-mash of criticisms against the current scientific views ranging from mildly skeptical to wild speculations.
^ this
Native
Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
I agree with you on the "day interpreting" in the biblical creation story. IMO "days" should be "stages" of creation.
When studying several cultural stories of creation, these takes of with a stage where everything was in a fluent stage of "cosmic rivers/clouds", much like the modern idea of a cosmic cloud of dust and gas which became the Solar System.
However, most of these ancient stories don´t deal with the creation of the Solar System as the first to happen. As the Solar System is an integrated part of the Milky Way formation and rotation, the first part of the creation stories deals with the "first firm matter to be created in the Milky Way galaxy", but this sentence is interpreted to deal with the creation of the Earth. The problem is to understand the first created matter to deal with "soil" and NOT the Earth.
If so, this undermines the very speculation of an "old Earth or young Earth". The Earth is just that old as much of the other planets in the Solar System since they all were created out from the Sun and the entire Solar System was once created in the center of the Milky Way galaxy and driven out from this center i.e. "Driven out of the central creation garden of Eden" in the biblical sense.
Audie
Veteran Member
There is no "debate". It is a lot like
speaking of the debate with flat earthers,
who are simply being ridiculous.
The core issue, you have those who through
ignorance or intellectual dishonesty
bitterly cling to ancient superstition.
And on the other, you've anything past the 18th
century, intellectually or scientifically.
Unless, of course, it isn't. But I'm sure your grasp of Biblical Hebrew is much, much better than mine?
74x12
Well-Known Member
The 7 days were by the Light of Genesis 1:3; it was not solar days. Therefore we don't know. I'm not saying it was a long time or a short time. Just God's time. The Light was a supernatural Light. It was essentially the Light of God. So all things are made in 7 periods of the Light of God shining; inter-spaced by darkness in-between (called night).
These 7 periods of Light and darkness symbolize all the ages of the world to come. Ending in rest which is going to be eternal rest in God's finished creation. The creation of God is not finished yet because God has not yet rested in the new Jerusalem. This final rest of God was symbolized in the 7th day and when Solomon built the temple of God in Zion. They said "Arise, O Jehovah, to Thy rest, Thou, and the ark of Thy strength,"
But God said of Solomon's temple "Thus saith Jehovah, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?"
So it became evident that no physical temple could give rest to a God like Jehovah who the skies could not even contain.
So, the new Jerusalem is what God is building. Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you" what He did not say there is that this place is us. Yes, those who are the elect are the new Jerusalem. God will only rest in us because altogether as a great house for God with incarnate Jesus as the chief cornerstone we can express all the nature of the unfathomable and infinite God. So He will have rest in us. As it is written "Jehovah thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing."
So the rest(the 7th day) is the whole reason God made the world. Because God is love (1 John 4:8) and love must have something to love or it may not rest.
And if we want we can join His rest also. He says "Behold I make all things new". So we can be made new. Those who are saved in Jesus are the true new Jerusalem when we are made new. As God said "But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy."
It will be a glorious rest. (Isaiah 11:10)
I'm really more of an "Other - I'm not on any side because the answer is irrelevant in my life." I don't find the answer to the question important. The age of the gods does not matter to me. It is enough to know that Gaea - the earth - was here before me and will be here long after. It is the now in which I reside.
Audie
Veteran Member
Lotta preachin' next to nothing on topic.
Audie
Veteran Member
So do I.
Where we differ is that I don't erroneously conflate "precise age of earth really isn't that important" with "not being more curious about the place you live."
illykitty
RF's pet cat
Old. It's the scientific consensus and there's no debate there.
I don't even understand why it would be a debate, even with the most religious people. There's nothing here that says it's not made by god(s) over what is to us, a very long time.
There's only people who interpret religious text in a way that isn't nuanced that think the Earth is young. It's a very strange way of thinking in my opinion. I can't think so literally, especially when we're talking about godly being(s) that live eternal or near eternal lives.
I don't even understand why it would be a debate, even with the most religious people. There's nothing here that says it's not made by god(s) over what is to us, a very long time.
There's only people who interpret religious text in a way that isn't nuanced that think the Earth is young. It's a very strange way of thinking in my opinion. I can't think so literally, especially when we're talking about godly being(s) that live eternal or near eternal lives.
Audie
Veteran Member
Nobody could give a precise age. There is though a
big difference between the biblical 6 day poof
of a few K years ago, and, the actual approx age.
As well as the processes involved!
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
An actual "precise age" is impossible since the Earth did not form in one swell foop. It began as an accretion process and would have lasted millions of years at least. At which point in Earth's formation could one say "now it is Earth and before this day it was not Earth"? The date that we now have is about as accurate as it can get, even with more evidence due to the "fuzzy nature" of planetary formation.
I suppose I'm not articulating well where I'm coming from. What I am saying is that while the age of the earth may be a "big difference" from an academic standpoint, when it comes to living our day to day lives, that information is irrelevant and unimportant. I don't think any of us can say the age of the earth has any significant impact on how we live our lives... unless we happen to be a career geologist or evolutionary biologist.
exchemist
Veteran Member
There is no theory of a young earth in any scientific sense. The only people who argue for a young earth are science ignoramuses who are foolish enough to take the bible literally in all respects, something Christian scholars have not done since about 400AD.
There is excellent evidence (radiometric) that the solar system, of which the earth is part, is 4.5bn yrs old. An age of this order of magnitude,i.e. measured in billions of years, is also required to make sense of what we observe in geology.
There is no "debate" to be had about this in any useful sense.
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Audie
Veteran Member
I get that.
As I live my day, it does not matter what Chopin
or Brahms wrote.
I like to listen, tho, go to concerts.
I find earth history to be fascinating; to
fascinating, and that knowing some geology
makes the landscape come alive.
To each his own.