Omnipotence Paradox and God's Limitations

[Nakosis]

Hinduism has a nice neat solution to this. We are living under the delusion and illusion of māyā. Everything we see and experience physically and materially, including our images and perceptions of God and the gods, the world, the stars, the universe is illusion. The only thing that exists is Brahman, which is not physical and is beyond attributes. When we try to understand Brahman, or we think of Brahman as God we are deluded by māyā.

I see monotheism/abrahamic religions as relatively new comers when it comes to "divine" ideology. It's not really as well thought out.

 

[Jainarayan]

I seem monotheism/abrahamic religions as relatively new comers when it comes to "divine" ideology. It's not really as well thought out.

Yes, it's the dualism I think.

 

[ManSinha]

Yes, it's the dualism I think.

How much that is explained by Dwaita vs Adwaita Vedanta vs Samkhya?

 

[Jainarayan]

How much that is explained by Dwaita vs Adwaita Vedanta vs Samkhya?

Advaita is total non-dualism. Dvaita is total dualism. To the best of my understanding Dvaita not unlike the relationship of God to creation in the Abrahamic faiths. And then we have those schools in the middle... Vishishtadvaita (literally "Advaita with qualifications"), Achintya-Bheda-Abheda (inconceivable sameness and difference), and several others. Samkhya is something I cannot get my head wrapped around, like 'tantra'. Maybe that's because there are so many definitions.

 

[ChristineM]

I was being "eaten" by something. There was pain there was fear/horror. If asked at that moment was what I was experiencing real, of course I would have said yes, but then I woke up.

When you wake up from giving birth the offspring does not vanish like a dream

 

[Nakosis]

When you wake up from giving birth the offspring does not vanish like a dream

Actually it would if giving birth was part of the dream.

 

[ChristineM]

Actually it would if giving birth was part of the dream.

You are still here, your mom not woke up yet?

 

[Deeje]

Can you prove your god is real? You need objective evidence.

What is "objective" about the "evidence" for either side of this issue? Both depend on "interpretation" of the same "evidence". If your particular bias leads you in one direction or another, then you simply have the choice between two "belief" systems. These are the only facts. What do YOU believe? And WHY do you believe it?

Those who believe in God need no more evidence than what is right in front of their noses....those who want an excuse not to believe in an intelligent Creator, will latch on to whatever science presents, no matter how far fetched it is, whilst accusing Bible believers of accepting fairy tales. Never mind that it requires more faith to believe in evolution's fairy tales, IMO.

This issue is about us and what is in our own hearts......our choice creates a clear separation between those who believe in God and those who believe in science.

Examine the evidence without the pressure to conform to what "intelligent people" accept and you will find God everywhere in creation...not in an endless series of fortunate undirected accidents. I have made my choice......you must make yours.

 

[Nakosis]

You are still here, your mom not woke up yet?

Nope, she's still here. When you "wake up" the reality you've been experiencing while dreaming ceases to exist. This would include your own existence as a persona within the dream.

 

[ChristineM]

Nope, she's still here. When you "wake up" the reality you've been experiencing while dreaming ceases to exist. This would include your own existence as a persona within the dream.

Glad to hear that, and so are you

Dreaming is not reality,
Reality : the state or quality of having existence or substance.

You may imagine a dream to be real in reality it is really imagination and nor reall reality at all

 

[Nakosis]

Advaita is total non-dualism. Dvaita is total dualism. To the best of my understanding Dvaita not unlike the relationship of God to creation in the Abrahamic faiths. And then we have those schools in the middle... Vishishtadvaita (literally "Advaita with qualifications"), Achintya-Bheda-Abheda (inconceivable sameness and difference), and several others. Samkhya is something I cannot get my head wrapped around, like 'tantra'. Maybe that's because there are so many definitions.

Do you see Hinduism having many variations as a problem?

I mean, so like you are looking for the "truth" not knowing the truth yourself. So many paths to take, even within one philosophy like Hinduism. How do you choose which to follow?

Lacking knowledge, the choice, the result of picking a path at random has about the same chance of leading one to the "truth".

 

[Nakosis]

Glad to hear that, and so are you

Dreaming is not reality,
Reality : the state or quality of having existence or substance.

You may imagine a dream to be real in reality it is really imagination and nor reall reality at all

Right, exactly. According to a branch of Hindu philosophy this reality, that we accept as reality is a dream or imagined reality. One we have yet to wake up from.

The point being not that this is the reality of our existence but how Hindu philosophy deals with the concept of an omnipotent God.

 

[ChristineM]

Right, exactly. According to a branch of Hindu philosophy this reality, that we accept as reality is a dream or imagined reality. One we have yet to wake up from.

The point being not that this is the reality of our existence but how Hindu philosophy deals with the concept of an omnipotent God.

Yet reality can be measured and weighed.

For a god, omnipotent or otherwise, it would need to exist before it can be measured and weighed

 

[Nakosis]

Yet reality can be measured and weighed.

Next time I have a lucid dream, I'll try to remember to go weigh myself.

For a god, omnipotent or otherwise, it would need to exist before it can be measured and weighed

Any god that could be weighed or measured in this reality would only be part of the illusion so wouldn't actually be god.

 

[Deeje]

Yet reality can be measured and weighed.

For a god, omnipotent or otherwise, it would need to exist before it can be measured and weighed

What makes you believe that puny humans have the equipment to weigh something that has no substance and immeasurable power?

The Bible describes the Creator as a Being with "absolute power and awesome strength". (Isaiah 40:26) Looking at the vast Universe we can get some idea of just how powerful he really is.

Like the wind, you can observe the force with your literal eyes, but not the substance. You can measure the velocity of the wind because humans have invented the equipment to do so......they have no "equipment" to measure the power of the Creator. That is why "believers" have something that non-believers do not....."eyes of faith". We see past what unbelievers see with their eyes, because for them, it goes no further than the brain. Faith goes all the way to the heart. That is the difference. God can only touch a part of us that is alive. When faith is dead there is nothing to touch. This is why I believe that the divide between the two groups is such an unbreachable chasm on these forums.

 

[Jainarayan]

Do you see Hinduism having many variations as a problem?

Actually no, not at all. On the surface it looks chaotic and contradictory. But the truth is that the differences are superficial. There are some basic tenets that are almost universally held.

Almost all Hindu writers, scholars, teachers, and probably most laypeople will say there’s only one God we just see differently and by different names. There’s a verse in the Rig Veda, the oldest and holiest Hindu scripture that translates as “One Truth the sages call by many names”.

A lot of people extend that to mean that whether one is a Hindu, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shinto, Taoist, or whatever, we’re all worshiping the same God, Truth, Consciousness, etc.

I mean, so like you are looking for the "truth" not knowing the truth yourself. So many paths to take, even within one philosophy like Hinduism. How do you choose which to follow?

Right, like “If I don’t know what truth is, how do I know it when I see it?”. Intuition, gut feeling, does it seem right? , It’s one of those you-know-it-when-you-see-it things.

But that’s where yoga comes into play. No, not yoga-class yoga. There are several different disciplines and methods. For some, meditation and introspection (jñana yoga, yoga of knowledge) is their method. For others, like me, it’s bhakti yoga (devotion to a form of God).

Lacking knowledge, the choice, the result of picking a path at random has about the same chance of leading one to the "truth".

Right, which is why unless one is born into a particular tradition and/or has some kind of guidance it can be a real mess... confusing and daunting to say the least. Been there, done that, I’m not a fan.

 

[Firemorphic]

Any god that could be weighed or measured in this reality would only be part of the illusion so wouldn't actually be god.

Which is actually part of why her question is so hilariously dumb, really no thought at all given to how much of a massive void of logic it requires to state that

 

[Firemorphic]

Actually no, not at all. On the surface it looks chaotic and contradictory. But the truth is that the differences are superficial. There are some basic tenets that are almost universally held.

Almost all Hindu writers, scholars, teachers, and probably most laypeople will say there’s only one God we just see differently and by different names. There’s a verse in the Rig Veda, the oldest and holiest Hindu scripture that translates as “One Truth the sages call by many names”.

A lot of people extend that to mean that whether one is a Hindu, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shinto, Taoist, or whatever, we’re all worshiping the same God, Truth, Consciousness, etc.



Right, like “If I don’t know what truth is, how do I know it when I see it?”. Intuition, gut feeling, does it seem right? , It’s one of those you-know-it-when-you-see-it things.

But that’s where yoga comes into play. No, not yoga-class yoga. There are several different disciplines and methods. For some, meditation and introspection (jñana yoga, yoga of knowledge) is their method. For others, like me, it’s bhakti yoga (devotion to a form of God).



Right, which is why unless one is born into a particular tradition and/or has some kind of guidance it can be a real mess... confusing and daunting to say the least. Been there, done that, I’m not a fan.

Yep, I agree with all of that. I think you and I are on the same page.

 

[ManSinha]

Yet reality can be measured and weighed.

We know there are other galaxies other than the milky way - do we know "how many"?

If there are other galaxies in existence - the Universe is expansive - can we measure that in the units we have?

For a god, omnipotent or otherwise, it would need to exist before it can be measured and weighed

At the risk of being contrarian - we humans have as much chance of doing that as a fish has of gauging the depth and vastness of the ocean it exists in - and I would state the fish has a better chance

I would agree that god is a human made construct and does not exist - but there is an underlying divine - a universal truth that is non transactional and at least in my mind, cannot be denied. If one chooses to say that there is not - well - again that is completely their prerogative.

 

[ChristineM]

Next time I have a lucid dream, I'll try to remember to go weigh myself.

Good luck with that.

Any god that could be weighed or measured in this reality would only be part of the illusion so wouldn't actually be god.

So your god is not real, fair enough