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On Abrahamic beliefs, their spread parameters, and the ethical and religious validity of same

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
While Abrahamic beliefs vary considerably, they also show very specific traits that, I want to argue here, put in doubt their ability to qualify either as religions proper or as ethically defensable doctrines.



1. What is an Abrahamic doctrine?

For the purposes of this text, I will define them as creeds or doctrines that adopt some version of Abraham's god - meaning that they specifically declare that god exists; that it is conscious; that it has a will that is in some sense responsible for existence itself; and that it is sufficiently aware of humanity to have communicated with specific people at least once during the history of human existence.

Every single one of those four stipulations is dubious at best. Nonetheless, literal billions of people have been raised to treat them as sacred truths, with varied and significant consequences.



2. What are we calling religions here?

For the purposes of this text, I will define religions as the activities that declare and attempt to discuss, delimitate and cultivate some set of perceptions of desirable virtues, moral values, and conceptions of what should be considered inherently admirable - or, in one word, Sacred.



3. What about God?

I am specifically refusing to use any form of concept of deity, divinity or god in my definition, because I have long concluded that it is very counterproductive to use those concepts even with qualifications or even to challenge them. They have grown meaningless and serve no constructive purpose except perhaps with considerable qualification. The main result of their casual use is deep obfuscation.



4. But...

No, really. I will not use any variation of god-concepts in my discussion of religions. That is final. That is not negotiable. And ultimately, that is removing a very big and very unnecessary hurdle that gets in the way of meaningful discussion and mutual understanding.

More specifically, "god talk" tends to create the superficial appearance that there is some actual, known-to-exist entity - or at least a clearly defined concept - that the word refers to. And that is just not true at all. Worse still, there are huge social taboos in place and constantly reinforced that make it hard to even point out that lack of object.

We all deserve better than just repeating that mistake for generation after generation.



5. If religions are not about god, what are they about instead?

Sometimes they are indeed about god. Or gods. Or Devas, or Kami, or totem spirits. There are all kinds of entities used for religious purposes, but few if any are expected to be one-size-fits-all answers for everything - except in the Abrahamic traditions, that is. Nor are those entities, which are not always expected to be taken as real by adherents, usually expected to be some source of supreme moral authority that somehow extends even to people who never heard of them.

In truth, god-conceptions are tools, useful mainly as shorthand for certain perspectives and values.



6. So what do I (Luis) consider to be a proper religion?

Religions are activities and exercises that aim to help people (sensitive and rational beings) in dealing with the anxieties and challenges that come from the realization of how little options we have in everyday life and how badly we want to achieve some sort of certainty and stability.

Of particular note is that they are aimed at the specific people and should take personal characteristics into account. Also, religion is a human activity that must take social and even technological circunstances into account; a healthy doctrine allows itself to be reconsidered and course-corrected often, and should in fact have mechanisms to pursue that correction.

Doctrines that do no acknowledge that need, including the Abrahamics, end up owing a debt to its own unsconcious herectics, who often end up doing the course-correction without receiving the proper gratitude in return.



7. Where to Abrahamic creeds stand by that perspective.

In short, they are strange and confused about what would a religion be.

I make something of an exception to Judaism, mainly because they accept that their creed isn't to be applicable for everyone.

Later Abrahamisms, however, aim to be true religions while doing arguably the exact opposite; they expect to build whole doctrines and ways-of-living based on the daring yet foolish bet that there is a creator of existence itself who also expects us to be personally in awe of its moral judgement, despite apparently going out of its way to make its very existence doubtful and inconsequential even if true.

But the main flaw of the Abrahamics is in presenting themselves as a Source of Truth that they would somehow have the right to impose on their own children as some sort of duty-of-belief. That is a disrespectful stance that reflects very badly indeed into the very idea of religiosity.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What about the Samaritans? Would you make them an exception too since they don't proselytyze?

You seem to take issue with the aspect of exclusivity of Abrahamic religions. Some of them feature it and others don't. If it is true that you find exclusive religions offensive then there are other non-Abrahamic religions you need to address.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
What about the Samaritans? Would you make them an exception too since they don't proselytyze?

I pretty much have to. They do not presume to judge me, and that makes me unable to judge them.


You seem to take issue with the aspect of exclusivity of Abrahamic religions. Some of them feature it and others don't. If it is true that you find exclusive religions offensive then there are other non-Abrahamic religions you need to address.

How do you define exclusivity in religion?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
The revelation and promise of Christ is this: all human beings have the spark of the Divine within them. And it is this Divine spark within us that inspires us to love, and to forgive, and to be kind and generous to each other ... if we have the wisdom and courage to recognize it and act on it. But we can lose sight of this spark, or perhaps never know of it, and fall into a dark spirit of fear, and anger, and resentment, and selfishness; so that we become indifference toward the gift of life and the well-being of others. And in this state we do great harm to ourselves and to everyone and everything around us. We become a curse upon ourselves, a danger to others, and a blight on the whole world.

But this revelation of the good and evil within us also comes with a promise. And that promise comes to us in the form of a choice. As we can choose which of these spirits within us we will embody as we engage with the world around us. We can choose to be loving and forgiving and kind and generous; or we can choose to be frightened and angry and resentful and selfish. And if we can choose to be the former, rather then the latter, we can be spiritually healed within ourselves, and we can become healers to others, and to the world around us. And if enough of us will choose this path of healing, the whole world will be healed and saved, from us. And we from our own darkness and evil.

But for this promise to become evident and available to us, we need to know who and what we really are. We need to know that we have this light and this darkness within us. And that we CAN CHOOSE which of these we will embody as we are living our lives and as we interact with others and with the world. And that's why Christians want to "spread the message". That's why Christians are evangelical. They can see that our individual and collective future hangs in the balance. That we need to be awakened to the reality of our situation so that we can begin to see how to deal with it effectively, and positively.

Unfortunately, there are many religious Christians that are clueless about the message and promise of Christ. They have fallen into the unfortunate habit of worshipping the words in a book so intently that they have completely missed their meaning. Or they are obeying religious dictates under a pall of fear and threat rather than by any real spiritual choice. Such that their attempts at evangelism just become foolish and selfish and annoying to everyone they encounter.

But we're no better than they are if we allow their blindness to blind us to the real message and promise of Christ. Because that message and promise is crucial to our personal and collective well-being. And to the whole world, because of our power over it. We NEED to see who we really are, here, so that we can see that we do HAVE A CHOICE. We don't have to wallow in fear and resentment and selfishness and indifference. We can love, and forgive, and care for and share with each other, instead.

We need to know!
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
@PureX , do you mean that Christianity (or perhaps mainstream Christianity) has become too literal and lost track of its true religions core?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
@PureX , do you mean that Christianity (or perhaps mainstream Christianity) has become too literal and lost track of its true religions core?
Religions are man-made and man-controlled. So they mostly serve those men that control them, and those that want to be controlled by them. They are not the voice or reflection of God as they so often proclaim themselves to be.

The Divine Message doesn't come to us from God, through religion. It already exists within us. And it always has. The best thing religion can do for us is to help us to recognize this message within ourselves, and help us to then embody it. But because religions are so easily distracted from this service by their all-too-human and fallible leaders and their agendas, they are often not very effective at doing what they are supposed to be doing for people. And many are downright antagonistic in that regard.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Religions are man-made and man-controlled. So they mostly serve those men that control them, and those that want to be controlled by them. They are not the voice or reflection of God as they so often proclaim themselves to be.

The Divine Message doesn't come to us from God, through religion. It already exists within us. And it always has. The best thing religion can do for us is to help us to recognize this message within ourselves, and help us to then embody it. But because religions are so easily distracted from this service by their all-too-human and fallible leaders and their agendas, they are often not very effective at doing what they are supposed to be doing for people. And many are downright antagonistic in that regard.
Fair enough... but will you agree that this implies that mainstrean Christianity lost its aim?
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
@LuisDantas, I don't agree with your defintion of religion. A religion is a regular practice where the intended result is not apparent, but the adherent does the practice anyway.

That's it.

Naturally non-religious people think this is silly.
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
@LuisDantas, I don't agree with your defintion of religion. A religion is a regular practice where the intended result is not apparent, but the adherent does the practice anyway.

That's it.

Naturally non-religious people think this is silly.
Why would anyone do such a thing?
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
That seems to be dangerously close to walking towards the unknown. Purpose is important.
There is a purpose. If my definition is accepted, I said:

"A religion is a regular practice where the intended result is not apparent, but the adherent does the practice anyway."

But yes, it is absolutely walking towards the unknown. In my opinion that's very important. If the result is objectively known then it's more like medicine, or excercise.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Fair enough... but will you agree that this implies that mainstrean Christianity lost its aim?
I suppose it exemplifies the fact that we have both good and evil inclinations within us. And we are free to choose either as a course of action. I think the battle is in developing our awareness of this. Religious Christianity has helped a lot of people in this regard. But it has also blinded and misled a lot of people in this regard, too.

It's not a single answer.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I suppose it exemplifies the fact that we have both good and evil inclinations within us. And we are free to choose either as a course of action. I think the battle is in developing our awareness of this. Religious Christianity has helped a lot of people in this regard. But it has also blinded and misled a lot of people in this regard, too.

It's not a single answer.
With all due respect, to me at least it looks like the answer to a different question from the one that I asked.

I am also puzzled by the use of the expression religious Christianity. Not sure of what it means.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
With all due respect, to me at least it looks like the answer to a different question from the one that I asked.

I am also puzzled by the use of the expression religious Christianity. Not sure of what it means.
Your question presupposed a single answer. And there isn't one. Millions of humans are better people for their experience of religious Christianity. And yet millions are also using that religion to justify doing evil to others.
 
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