On Evolution & Creation

[TagliatelliMonster]

That "tree" doesn't make much sense to me.

Your argument from incredulity is noted.

It's an imaginary version of some scientists. The tree may make sense to you --

The tree is mapped from evidence, not from anyone's opinions or mere beliefs.

 

[metis]

Speciation certainly exists, such as that between finches, but again -- aside from conjecture by placing puzzle pieces in a frame, such as Tiktaalik, claiming that is the "in-between" specimen (which it does NOT prove) what else is there? Yes, humans no matter long or short limbs by passing on genetics, or skin color, among other differences, still -- remain -- humans...

When one uses their religion as a set of blinders, there's a serious problem.

 

[YoursTrue]

When one uses their religion as a set of blinders, there's a serious problem.

What's to SEE in the way of evidence from Tiktaalik supposedly crawling somehow maybe out of water eventually and developing lungs to air breathe? What evidence is there to show?

 

[YoursTrue]

We have been trying to explain this to @YoursTrue on a near weekly basis since at least june 2021

More News on the Changing Evolution Scene :-) !!! :-)

I like bananas, too. One thing in favor of gorillas -- as I understand it, they are not big meat eaters. So they don't raise cattle which is apparently adding to ruin the earth. (Oh, well. The Bible says God will ruin those who ruin the earth -- that's in Revelation, but of course, you probably...

www.religiousforums.com

I think it's clear we are dealing with the epitome of intellectual dishonesty / willful ignorance.

That's what you're saying. But then you also say humans are fish. So apes are fish, too, according to the theory.

 

[Valjean]

Some people do say they "see" evolution directly when they see birds' beaks change size, don't they? First let's see if we can agree on that point. Study of Darwin's finches reveals that new species can develop in as little as two generations

Nobody "sees" birds' beaks change size unless they watch a chick grow to an adult. Darwin's finches were noteworthy in that the several species were descendants of a single species
Yes, faced with a new environment or significant challenge, speciation can proceed remarkably fast, especially with short generation times.
So what?

Some More Observed Speciation Events

Observed Instances of Speciation

 

[YoursTrue]

Your argument from incredulity is noted.


The tree is mapped from evidence, not from anyone's opinions or mere beliefs.

From what did it start? Anyone know?

 

[YoursTrue]

Nobody "sees" birds' beaks change size unless they watch a chick grow to an adult. Darwin's finches were noteworthy in that the several species were descendants of a single species
Yes, faced with a new environment or significant challenge, speciation can proceed remarkably fast, especially with short generation times.
So what?

Some More Observed Speciation Events

Observed Instances of Speciation

Ok so you want to debate that species did or did not evolve among finches in a couple of generations, is that it?

 

[Valjean]

What's to SEE in the way of evidence from Tiktaalik supposedly crawling somehow maybe out of water eventually and developing lungs to air breathe? What evidence is there to show?

Nobody's characterizing Tiktaalik as crawling onto land and developing lungs. You have an astonishing capacity to interpret evolution as proceeding by a few large steps.
Tiktaalik was one in a long series of small changes, eventually accumulating into a significant change.

We have today many examples of fish and other aquatic species in the process of evolving the ability to leave the water for land. It happened and is happening.

 

[YoursTrue]

Nobody's characterizing Tiktaalik as crawling onto land and developing lungs. You have an astonishing capacity to interpret evolution as proceeding by a few large steps.
Tiktaalik was one in a long series of small changes, eventually accumulating into a significant change.

We have today many examples of fish and other aquatic species in the process of evolving the ability to leave the water for land. It happened and is happening.

I certainly did not characterize Tiktaalik as a land crawler.

 

[McBell]

I certainly did not characterized Tiktaalik as a land crawler.

what does this mean:

What's to SEE in the way of evidence from Tiktaalik supposedly crawling somehow maybe out of water eventually and developing lungs to air breathe? What evidence is there to show?

 

[Valjean]

That's what you're saying. But then you also say humans are fish. So apes are fish, too, according to the theory.

But you don't understand why people say apes are fish. You don't understand the process or what we mean when we say a species can't evolve out of its clade. Yet you don't hesitate to weigh in on the subject.

 

[YoursTrue]

Nobody's characterizing Tiktaalik as crawling onto land and developing lungs. You have an astonishing capacity to interpret evolution as proceeding by a few large steps.
Tiktaalik was one in a long series of small changes, eventually accumulating into a significant change.

We have today many examples of fish and other aquatic species in the process of evolving the ability to leave the water for land. It happened and is happening.

Wonder if you think these presently evolving fish (after all, don't you say everything is constantly evolving?) might evolve down the line to become ... apes...

 

[Pogo]

From what did it start? Anyone know?

The ability to sequence genes and the collection of these sequences in scientific literature.

DNA sequencing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Valjean]

Ok so you want to debate that species did or did not evolve among finches in a couple of generations, is that it?

No finch evolved into a noticeably different bird in a couple of generations.

Wonder if you think these presently evolving fish (after all, don't you say everything is constantly evolving?) might evolve down the line to become ... apes...

Why would you wonder? We've been explaining all this for years.
They might eventually evolve something apelike.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's what you're saying. But then you also say humans are fish. So apes are fish, too, according to the theory.

Yes, by cladistics that is correct.

Here is the problem creationists always demand to see a species evolve into a "totally different species". Evolution does not work that way. When one shows speciation in fish we hear the ignorant comment "but they are still fish" in response far too often. The point is by those standards we are "still fish" since we can trace our ancestry to them. There was no fish parent that ever gave birth to a different species from itself.

 

[YoursTrue]

No finch evolved into a noticeably different bird in a couple of generations.

I realize that

Why would you wonder? We've been explaining all this for years.
They might eventually evolve something apelike.

Oh..

 

[YoursTrue]

The ability to sequence genes and the collection of these sequences in scientific literature.

DNA sequencing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Quite an ability..

 

[YoursTrue]

No finch evolved into a noticeably different bird in a couple of generations.

Why would you wonder? We've been explaining all this for years.
They might eventually evolve something apelike.

How about birds? You think they could evolve to become fish? or how about apes? If not, why not?

 

[YoursTrue]

Nobody's characterizing Tiktaalik as crawling onto land and developing lungs.

No kidding. Really?

You have an astonishing capacity to interpret evolution as proceeding by a few large steps.

Not at all, but you have the great capacity to misunderstand what I'm saying. I never said that Tiktaalik morphed, I mean evolved, to anything else. Period. Long or short time. Anyway, so be it, and have a very pleasant evening. Thanks for the conversation.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That's what you're saying

It's what evolution says. You know..... that theory you refuse to learn yet are hellbend on arguing against.

But then you also say humans are fish. So apes are fish, too, according to the theory.

Chordates.