On the trinity

[BrightShadow]

I have a question about us as humans and the trinity. I’ve read a lot on the trinity but still don’t seem to understand if we as “created” human beings, are said th become “one” with God, then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

You have to have a "Trinity" to be part of that Trinity. It is bogus!
Paul or Saul, Tertullian and Constantine these "trio" with the help of other clowns created the triune concept. So, when trinitarians die - they become part of that trio! IMO

 

[firedragon]

You have to have a "Trinity" to be part of that Trinity. It is bogus!
Paul or Saul, Tertullian and Constantine these "trio" with the help of other clowns created the triune concept. So, when trinitarians die - they become part of that trio! IMO

That's actually false. The concept of trinity was never created by Paul. The maximum you could get to with Paul is a biiatarian concept. No trinity.

And it existed prior to Constantine. The Turkish conference was only to make one version official.

 

[BrightShadow]

The easiest way to understand the trinity is with an analogy. I have done this before, but it is worth repeating. Picture a man name Joe, who is a son to his parents, a husband to his wife and a father to his children. He is one person, since he has only one social security number. However, he has three different hats he wears when interacting with his family. He is more submissive and respectful with his parents in ways he is not with his wife and children. He is intimate with his wife in ways he is not with his parents and children, and he is firm but fair with his children in ways he is not with this parents and wife.

In the Old Testament, the one God used the hat of the Father to communicate with the Jews. In the New Testament the one God used the hat of the Son to communicate with the Christians. The Holy Spirit is a third hat, the works of which, over 2000 years, have yet to be compile into the Modern Testament. People can commune with God, in any or all of these three ways, since all hats are from the substance of the one God.

In the example of Joe, he is a good son, father and husband and all his interactions are a blessing to his family. This binds them all.

We can extend this family analogy of Joe, to him also having brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews, and aunts and uncles; trinity plus trinity. This would be the six essences of God; six days, that connects to the extended family of man; other religions. These are the lost tribes of Israel scattered all over the world. This awareness will come only after the Third Testament is compiled, since the works of the Spirit were much broader than expected and impacts all in various ways. Joe can even have grandchildren; seven.

Don't use this Joe and his family or 3 hats of Joe analogy ever again unless you want to sweep the rest of the Bible under the rug.

Don't use water, egg or sun analogy either.

Using your analogy... and cross checking with verses from the Bible...

[John 14:28] One (Joe) is greater than the other.
[John 5:30] & [John 7:16] One (hat) cannot do anything by himself. One does the will of another who sent him.
[ John 7:28-29 ] One (Joe) sent the other.
[ John 11:41-42 ] One (hat) looking up towards another and praying
[ John 20:17 ] One (Joe) has a God, so how both are Joes?
[Matthew 24:36] One (Joe) left his memory behind. Not all-knowing anymore - so not fully god.
[Luke 5:16] & [Matthew 14:23] One (hat) prayed to the other in isolation. So, cannot be the same (hat)!
And so on and on and on.
As you see - it doesn't work!
You can't have your cake and eat it too!

 

[BrightShadow]

That's actually false. The concept of trinity was never created by Paul. The maximum you could get to with Paul is a biiatarian concept. No trinity.

And it existed prior to Constantine. The Turkish conference was only to make one version official.

It is a team work over centuries. Each of them planted the seed. Each of them played a part. I did say with the help of other clowns! So, all contributors are covered!

 

[Ajax]

That's actually false. The concept of trinity was never created by Paul. The maximum you could get to with Paul is a biiatarian concept. No trinity.

And it existed prior to Constantine. The Turkish conference was only to make one version official.

Which one is the Turkish conference?

 

[learner Daniel]

I have a question about us as humans and the trinity. I’ve read a lot on the trinity but still don’t seem to understand if we as “created” human beings, are said th become “one” with God, then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

2 Peter 1

Easy-to-Read Version

​

1 Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.
To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. This faith was given to us because our God and Savior Jesus Christ always does what is good and right.
2 Grace and peace be given to you more and more, because now you know God and Jesus our Lord.

God Has Given Us Everything We Need​

3 Jesus has the power of God. And his power has given us everything we need to live a life devoted to God. We have these things because we know him. Jesus chose us by his glory and goodness, 4 through which he also gave us the very great and rich gifts that he promised us. With these gifts you can share in being like God. And so you will escape the ruin that comes to people in the world because of the evil things they want.
5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love. 8 If all these things are in you and growing, you will never fail to be useful to God. You will produce the kind of fruit that should come from your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But those who don’t grow in these blessings are blind. They cannot see clearly what they have. They have forgotten that they were cleansed from their past sins.
10 My brothers and sisters, God called you and chose you to be his. Do your best to live in a way that shows you really are God’s called and chosen people. If you do all this, you will never fall. 11 And you will be given a very great welcome into the kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a kingdom that never ends.
12 You already know these things. You are very strong in the truth you have. But I am always going to help you remember them. 13 While I am still living here on earth, I think it is right for me to remind you of them. 14 I know that I must soon leave this body. Our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me that. 15 I will try my best to make sure you remember these things even after I am gone.

 

[firedragon]

Which one is the Turkish conference?

Council of Nicea.

 

[InChrist]

I have a question about us as humans and the trinity. I’ve read a lot on the trinity but still don’t seem to understand if we as “created” human beings, are said th become “one” with God, then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

I believe those saved and born again to new life in Christ become one with God spiritually and relationally, but human beings do not and cannot become part of the Triune Godhead. That is my perspective.

The Trinity

Many Christians are at a loss to understand, much less to defend, the "Trinity." Critics argue that that word is not even found in the Bible. To deal with that issue, we must begin with God,

www.thebereancall.org

 

[Ajax]

Council of Nicea.

Apart from philosophy, you must study a bit of history, mate. The Turks occupied Constantinople in 1453, more than a millennium after the Council of Nicaea. For all the preceding years, it was Byzantium, and the official language was Greek. Many of their emperors were Greek. It had nothing to do with the Turks, who appeared much later and were, obviously, Muslims.

 

[Ebionite]

I have a question about us as humans and the trinity. I’ve read a lot on the trinity but still don’t seem to understand if we as “created” human beings, are said th become “one” with God, then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

The trinity is from the cult of Sol Invictus, not Judaism. In Judaism prophets like Moses are one with Elohim (translated as "God") eg Exodus 19-20.

 

[firedragon]

Apart from philosophy, you must study a bit of history, mate. The Turks occupied Constantinople in 1453, more than a millennium after the Council of Nicaea. For all the preceding years, it was Byzantium, and the official language was Greek. Many of their emperors were Greek. It had nothing to do with the Turks, who appeared much later and were, obviously, Muslims.

What in the world are you talking about mate? It's irrelevant. I say Muhammed was born in Saudi Arabia, but the country was not found for 1300 years since.

If you wish to be pedantic, be precise about refuting what someone claimed about the conference and the trinity. Not this cheap rhetoric.

 

[Ajax]

What in the world are you talking about mate? It's irrelevant. I say Muhammed was born in Saudi Arabia, but the country was not found for 1300 years since.

If you wish to be pedantic, be precise about refuting what someone claimed about the conference and the trinity. Not this cheap rhetoric.

Irrelevant. In the same way that the Roman empire was not Italian, so the Byzantium Empire was not Turkish. We never say for example about the Italian occupation of Britain, but the Roman. So when you write "Turkish conference" for the Council of Nicaea, sounds ridicoulous, unless you are of Turkish origin.

 

[firedragon]

Irrelevant. In the same way that the Roman empire was not Italian, so the Byzantium Empire was not Turkish. We never say for example about the Italian occupation of Britain, but the Roman. So when you write "Turkish conference" for the Council of Nicaea, sounds ridicoulous, unless you are of Turkish origin.

Ciao.

 

[Muffled]

I have a question about us as humans and the trinity. I’ve read a lot on the trinity but still don’t seem to understand if we as “created” human beings, are said th become “one” with God, then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

I believe we do not. We share our bodies with God giving Him permission to be Lord over our bodies. We do not dissolve our spirit into God's Spirit.

 

[Muffled]

In all your readings on the trinity, has any of it made sense to you, on any level?
The trinity is blasphemy, it is complete nonsense from start until finish.
God is not triune, as He cannot be quantified, and there is no such thing as a god-man as these are two entirely incompatible ontologies - the attributes of one, are antithetical to the other. You cannot be mortal and immortal at the same time, nor corporeal and spirit simultaneously, nor secular and transcendent.
Three all powerful persons in a single godhead is the quintessence of redundancy - nothing to separate or identify them but their names.

So, no, becoming one with God means becoming one in spirit. Just as a man and a woman are to become one, as King David and Jonathan become one, just as the Church must become one with Christ, just as Christ said: become one as I and the Father are one - nothing mysterious, ....even the three musketeers were one.

I believe that is false.

I believe that is true but God does exist in a Trinity.

 

[Muffled]

Welcome Chrissy,
The Holy Spirit can be a little tricky to understand. In my opinion the easiest way to understand it is by looking at it as the relationship between two living things such as the relationship between God and Jesus or humans and Jesus or God and humans or even the relationship between all three. So as far as your question, yes you are a part of the Trinity now and will be a part of the Trinity in heaven after you die.

I believe that is not true. God is the third person in the Trinity and we just get to go along for the ride.

Since the first statement isn't true then neither is the second.

 

[LeftyLen]

I have a question about us as humans and the trinity. I’ve read a lot on the trinity but still don’t seem to understand if we as “created” human beings, are said th become “one” with God, then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

The Trinity is a pagan concept, an amalgamation of Greek philosophy, roman religion and some bible verses. I was codified by vote of the Bishops at Nicea.

 

[DNB]

I believe that is false.

I believe that is true but God does exist in a Trinity.

Like I said: explain the nonsense, or concede that it's false

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I have a question about us as humans and the trinity. I’ve read a lot on the trinity but still don’t seem to understand if we as “created” human beings, are said th become “one” with God, then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

Although I am not personally a Christian, my understanding is that they actually do NOT teach that we will become one with God. There are other religions that do. Just not Christianity. I'm going to take a few minutes just to see what some of the Christian responses are.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I think that @Oeste phrased it rather well myself, but if it’s still puzzling, sometimes it’s easier to think of the Trinity as the sum of three different perspectives on being.

Father: perspective in theory; possession of “what” is [law/code/word].

Holy Spirit: perspective in principle; divine force/will from knowledge of “how”, or of what should be.

Son: [Christ] perspective in practice; the understanding of “why”, through embodiment (the “human” perspective).

Trinity: the above three combined, leading to omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience

So, in lack of better terms, I guess one could say that after its experience of embodiment, your soul “returns” to source [God] as a constant part of what always is.

Humbly,
Hermit

If you are saying that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are simply three different expressions of God, that would not be Trinitarianism. That's actually called Modalism.