"On this Rock I will build my church"

[Kemosloby]

We are all children of God, no doubt but not literally. Even in a special way as Israel is the Son of God, but still not literally. And yes, "son of the dirty" as we all are. Hence, at death we all return to the dirty. (Ecclesiastes 12:7) But, this saying of yours that "whosoever is born of God does not commit sin," will get you in trouble with Jesus because, according to Ecclesiastes 7:20 and Mat. 23:13-33, Jesus was not without sin.

How do you figure Matt 23 13-33 says Jesus sinned? The Eccleisates one I could assume he meant himself excluded.

 

[COGTHW]

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. ; Ah ah ah Explain not by search site but by the words you see now.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I did read it, but I find an error in your reasoning. Judaism does have a place for a man God. "And they will call him Emmanuel, meaning God with us"

Matt 1:23 "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Now, if you read Isaiah 8:8, the Prophet identifies Immanuel by name with being Judah, the son born of the virgin Israel when she fell to the Assyrians according to Amos 5:2. That's when the Lord rejected the Tents of Joseph and confirmed Judah to remain as a people before the Lord forever. (Psalms 78:67-70) If you follow the chain for the child born of the virgin according to Isaiah 7:14, you will understand what the whole thing is all about. The chain goes thus: Isaiah 7:14, 15, 22 and 8:8 when Judah is described as of being Immanuel which means "God with us," the Gentiles. Hence, Israel had been assigned as light for the Gentiles. (Isaiah 42:6)

 

[Kemosloby]

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. ; Ah ah ah Explain not by search site but by the words you see now.

It means Jesus is your get out of jail free card. Before the law "Where there is no law sin is not taken into account" , "The law was given so that sin would increase", "Where sin increased God's mercy increased all the more" Jesus is Gods Mercy, His power to forgive Sin. So a man cannot sin so long as Jesus abides with him, since his sins are forgiven.

 

[COGTHW]

Now, if you read Isaiah 8:8, the Prophet identifies Immanuel by name with being Judah, the son born of the virgin Israel when she fell to the Assyrians according to Amos 5:2. That's when the Lord rejected the Tents of Joseph and confirmed Judah to remain as a people before the Lord forever. (Psalms 78:67-70) If you follow the chain for the child born of the virgin according to Isaiah 4:14, you will understand what the whole thing is about. The change goes thus:
Isaiah 7:14, 15, 22 and 8:8 when Judah is described as of being Immanuel which means "God with us," the Gentiles.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1 ; JESUS is Immanuel.

 

[COGTHW]

It means Jesus is your get out of jail free card. Before the law "Where there is no law sin is not taken into account" , "The law was given so that sin would increase", "Where sin increased God's mercy increased all the more" Jesus is Gods Mercy, His power to forgive Sin. So a man cannot sin so long as Jesus abides with him, since his sins are forgiven.

You have to be born again by water in the name of Jesus Christ and baptized of the Holy Ghost. 12 'But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:'

13 'Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.' John 1:12-12

 

[Kemosloby]

Now, if you read Isaiah 8:8, the Prophet identifies Immanuel by name with being Judah, the son born of the virgin Israel when she fell to the Assyrians according to Amos 5:2. That's when the Lord rejected the Tents of Joseph and confirmed Judah to remain as a people before the Lord forever. (Psalms 78:67-70) If you follow the chain for the child born of the virgin according to Isaiah 7:14, you will understand what the whole thing is all about. The chain goes thus: Isaiah 7:14, 15, 22 and 8:8 when Judah is described as of being Immanuel which means "God with us," the Gentiles. Hence, Israel had been assigned as light for the Gentiles. (Isaiah 42:6)

I'll take your word for it, since I've seen how the path of the Israelites can be viewed as "shadow of things to come". So the concept of a "God with us" born of a virgin is in Judaism. And both could be true. Like it says which is greater the throne or He who sits on it. The path of the Israelites is His throne and Christ is He who sits on it. As I understand it.

 

[Ben Avraham]

How do you figure Matt 23 13-33 says Jesus sinned? The Eccleisates one I could assume he meant himself excluded.

That's about the Golden Rule which Jesus broke 15 times only in that text. The Golden Rule says, "Thou shall not do unto others what you would not like they did unto yourself." Jesus cursed the Jewish authorities with being hypocrites and brood of vipers." Do you think he would have liked to be addressed as a hypocrite and brood of vipers? I don't think so. The Golden Rule, mind you, covers the whole second part of the Decalogue. Serious transgressions right there! Not to mention that Jesus armed himself with a whip and caused financial and physical damages to the money changers at that area in front of the Temple when they had the authorization of the High Priest to use that area to change the money of Jews coming from abroad. Their money had to be changed for the Temple shekel to keep the sacrifices kosher.

 

[Kemosloby]

That's about the Golden Rule which Jesus broke 15 times only in that text. The Golden Rule says, "Thou shall not do unto others what you would not like they did unto yourself." Jesus cursed the Jewish authorities with being hypocrites and brood of vipers." Do you think he would have liked to be addressed as a hypocrite and brood of vipers? I don't think so. The Golden Rule, mind you, covers the whole second part of the Decalogue. Serious transgressions right there! Not to mention that Jesus armed himself with a whip and caused financial and physical damages to the money changers at that area in front of the Temple when they had the authorization of the High Priest to use that area to change the money of Jews coming from abroad. Their money had to be changed for the Temple shekel to keep the sacrifices kosher.

Who wrote the Golden rule? It actually says "Love your neighbor as yourself" which Jesus clarified to mean "love your enemies too", So Jesus was giving them some tough love, seems consistent with the Lord of the old testaments tough love. I
f Jesus had sinned he would have been a hypocrite for faulting the moneychangers. "let him who has no sin cast the first stone"

 

[COGTHW]

He cursed them because, they denied God. Just like God will curse you if you deny Him. That's why Jesus said this 'But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.' Matthew 10:33

 

[COGTHW]

That's about the Golden Rule which Jesus broke 15 times only in that text. The Golden Rule says, "Thou shall not do unto others what you would not like they did unto yourself." Jesus cursed the Jewish authorities with being hypocrites and brood of vipers." Do you think he would have liked to be addressed as a hypocrite and brood of vipers? I don't think so. The Golden Rule, mind you, covers the whole second part of the Decalogue. Serious transgressions right there! Not to mention that Jesus armed himself with a whip and caused financial and physical damages to the money changers at that area in front of the Temple when they had the authorization of the High Priest to use that area to change the money of Jews coming from abroad. Their money had to be changed for the Temple shekel to keep the sacrifices kosher.

You got my Lord and Savior all wrong. 'And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves' Matthew 21:13. Jesus said they made it into a house of thieves a house of SIN. He punished them just like God will punish them in Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I'll take your word for it, since I've seen how the path of the Israelites can be viewed as "shadow of things to come". So the concept of a "God with us" born of a virgin is in Judaism. And both could be true. Like it says which is greater the throne or He who sits on it. The path of the Israelites is His throne and Christ is He who sits on it. As I understand it.

See how Christians are deluded by their own Christian preconceived notions! How could Jesus, now dead, sit on the throne of Israel? You are simply using a Jew to promote the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

 

[Ben Avraham]

You got my Lord and Savior all wrong. 'And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves' Matthew 21:13. Jesus said they made it into a house of thieves a house of SIN. He punished them just like God will punish them in Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

That's not true. This is a slander against the money changers who were doing a wonderful work for both, the Temple and the Jews from the Diaspora who used to come three times a year to offer sacrifices in the Temple. Since it was not kosher to use foreign money to pay for an animal to offer in sacrifice, they would have to turn their foreign money for the Temple shekel. Besides, they were legally authorized to do their work to make it easier to the foreign Jews and for the Temple. I don't believe Jesus did that but hey! It is written in your own NT. Now, if you ask me, I would not be surprised to know that the Mother of Jesus herself must have bought those two pigeons she needed to offer in sacrifice for Jesus in the Temple.

 

[Kemosloby]

See how Christians are deluded by their own Christian preconceived notions! How could Jesus, now dead, sit on the throne of Israel? You are simply using a Jew to promote the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

Metaphorically. Like what Vigin on earth could give birth to the entire Israelite nation ever to set foot upon the earth? The prophecy was a metaphor and the path went to Judah, Jesus came from Judah and was the embodiment of the metaphor, literally It's a double prophecy. Isaiah made the prophecy, the Jews confirmed the prophecy, then Jesus fulfilled the prophecy.

 

[Ben Avraham]

He cursed them because, they denied God. Just like God will curse you if you deny Him. That's why Jesus said this 'But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.' Matthew 10:33

If you ask me, this was a lie. Jesus would not curse his own colleagues with being hypocrites because Jesus was no different from them. Jesus kept the Law the Pharisaic way; down to the letter. Evidence? He implied that the only way to escape hell-fire would be by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. If you don't believe it, read Luke 16:29-31.

 

[Kemosloby]

See how Christians are deluded by their own Christian preconceived notions! How could Jesus, now dead, sit on the throne of Israel? You are simply using a Jew to promote the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

Let me put it to you this way. Who is greater in the Torah or Old Testament, The LORD, or all of the Israelites combined?

 

[Ben Avraham]

Metaphorically. Like what Vigin on earth could give birth to the entire Israelite nation ever to set foot upon the earth? The prophecy was a metaphor and the path went to Judah, Jesus came from Judah and was the embodiment of the metaphor, literally It's a double prophecy. Isaiah made the prophecy, the Jews confirmed the prophecy, then Jesus fulfilled the prophecy.

Are you ready to admit that Jesus was a biological son of Joseph? That's the only way he could be said to be from the Tribe of Judah. That's when the paradox comes in. If you admit that Jesus was a biological son of Joseph, he could never be referred to as son of God according to Mat. 1:18. Now, if he was not a biological son of Joseph, he could never be referred to as the Messiah. What is your choice, son of God or the Messiah? You cannot bake your cake and eat it too.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Let me put it to you this way. Who is greater in the Torah or Old Testament, The LORD, or all of the Israelites combined?

If by Lord here you mean Jesus, there is nothing to compare or choose from. Jesus was part of all the Jews; just like any other from among the Jews.

 

[Kemosloby]

Are you ready to admit that Jesus was a biological son of Joseph? That's the only way he could be said to be from the Tribe of Judah. That's when the paradox comes in. If you admit that Jesus was a biological son of Joseph, he could never be referred to as son of God according to Mat. 1:18. Now, if he was not a biological son of Joseph, he could never be referred to as the Messiah. What is your choice, son of God or the Messiah? You cannot bake your cake and eat it too.

What tribe was Mary from?

 

[Kemosloby]

If by Lord here you mean Jesus, there is nothing to compare or choose from. Jesus was part of all the Jews; just like any other from among the Jews.

No, I mean the Lord of the old testament. I hadn't drawn to connection between that Lord and Jesus yet. The Lord of the Old testament greater than all the Israelites put together?