On Visions

[YmirGF]

Vision?

I have read a number of posts regarding visions from the past here on RF. I have also read a few posts describing visions people have had in recent times.

I am curious about a few points.

1. Do you think visions are “real”?
2. Do you think visions are symptomatic of “something” else?
3. Have you, personally, had what may be considered a “vision”?
4. If you think visions are “real” what do you think their source is?
5. Do visions come from “god”?
6. Are visions the “work of the devil”?
7. Are there “experts” on the subject of “visions”? (Aside from the medical community – of course.)
8. If you have had a vision, was it just once or do you get them with some frequency?
9. Does the recipient of the vision instantly understand their vision?
10. IF question 9 is “yes”, then is the recipient also able to explain their vision to others in meaningful terms?
11. If you have visions, do you take them literally or do you think they are highly symbolic?
12. Are visions the same as revelations?

Ah well, that ought to be enough to get the ball rolling. ANY opinions are welcome but I would ask people to not attack others in this thread even though it is in the debate section. Otoh, I don’t just want this to be a mere “discussion” with no possibility of point and counter-point. Does that make sense? The reason for stating this is because personal visions are just that. They are very personal and I believe anyone who has had a “vision” will usually take it fairly seriously.

Last, I would really like to keep this as intelligent as possible, so please refrain from, “I had a vision I was going to be on a beach on the island of Aruba and be filthy rich.” That is not the kind of “vision” I am talking about. I am meaning more the kind of vision that Lilithu has expressed at least on two occasions. So, in this instance I am meaning specifically “religious” or “internal” visions that were not “sought out”. They just happened, as if, of their own accord.

I'll hang back for a bit and then offer my own thoughts on the various questions.

 

[FatMan]

The human mind is such a complex item that I don't know what to expect. I have very vivid dreams and very strange ones - I like the complexity of my dreams, but I would not call them visions as nothing really comes true from them.

For me to experience a vision, I would think it would take the form of something different. Instead, I believe in signs. My Grandfather was released from the hospital after a stay where he nearly died. I was the one to pick him up and take him home. On the drive, he told me to look after my grandmother and to take care as he was passing very soon. I told him not to talk like that.

He got home, balanced the checkbook, left written instructions on how my Grandmother could access any bank accounts, made sure his will was updated, and prepared for his death. He never awoke from sleep the next day.

I knew this was a man who understood what was in store for him and thus, I celebrated his passing rather than mourning it.

 

[dawny0826]

I am curious about a few points.

1. Do you think visions are “real”?

I believe that there are real visions.

2. Do you think visions are symptomatic of “something” else?

I think it's possible.

3. Have you, personally, had what may be considered a “vision”?

About this time last year, actually, I was praying for God to reveal to me what my gifts are. I was feeling really down and out and wanted to know what He's equipped me with and how I could use whatever that is to better the lives of people. Not to imply that my vision experience proved anything about myself...it was simply an interesting experience that happened at a time where I was asking God the question..."God, am I special? Is there anything special about me?" Probably sounds silly but it was between God and I.


I had a dream one night that was really strange. It was nothing more than the word "ADOPTION" flashing in alternating Black and White. First it would flash in black writing on white and then it would flash in white writing on black.

I took notice several days later of the fact that adoption was being mentioned a lot around me and I think the only reason I took note of that is because the dream puzzled me.

I went to the post office to run an errand for work and I'm fairly shy in public. It's not characteristic of me to initiate a conversation with a stranger or to pay close attention to people for that matter, but I was standing in line and I heard a little voice. I couldn't help but to turn because the child sounded so much like my daughter. And there was a caucasian woman with a Chinese baby. I don't know what came over me but I just started a conversation with this woman and while in line, and we had a conversation about this little one's adoption. She was adopted from China and the woman divulged all of this information about the process and the wait and her hopes for future children. She was a lovely woman.

So, I leave the post office and sit in my car and I'm like 'God, what are trying to tell me?' For a brief moment, I began to question if He was insinuating that I should adopt a child.

I go back to work, and I log onto AOL and I get a PM from my cousin. She asks me when we planned to pay her a visit next because she had some big news to tell us.

I then feel the Holy Spirit move me and I knew what her news was before she told me...after years of trying to conceive, she and her husband are adopting a little girl from China.

Awake, I saw that flashing word again...ADOPTION in my brain and I vowed to be a prayer warrior for their adoption.

4. If you think visions are “real” what do you think their source is?

I think it depends. I believe that both God and Satan are capable of giving us visions.

5. Do visions come from “god”?

Some.

6. Are visions the “work of the devil”?

I think they can be.

7. Are there “experts” on the subject of “visions”? (Aside from the medical community – of course.)

Probably not. I don't know how anyone can claim expertise in a such a subject. It's more a subject of faith than anything else.

8. If you have had a vision, was it just once or do you get them with some frequency?

This was just once. I'm very intuitive by nature but that's different. I always KNOW when my husband is getting laid off. The day that it happens...I know before he knows. How...I don't know but that's not exactly the same thing as a vision.

Kenneth E. Hagin, I can't remember if it's Sr. or Junior, was/is a very popular Pentecostal/Charismatic evangelist and I admire and read his work. His explanation about dreams and visions is this: if you don't immediately understand it or feel that it's relevant...let it go.

I agree.

9. Does the recipient of the vision instantly understand their vision?

I didn't.

10. IF question 9 is “yes”, then is the recipient also able to explain their vision to others in meaningful terms?

Probably not. I told my cousin, my mother and my grandmother and they didn't think much of it.

11. If you have visions, do you take them literally or do you think they are highly symbolic?

I think my vision was a mixture of both. And I'm sure visions, in general can be a mixture of both.

12. Are visions the same as revelations?

Maybe. I think it feasible that they could be.

 

[Katzpur]

Do you think visions are “real”?

Duh! I'm LDS. What do you think I think?

Do you think visions are symptomatic of “something” else?

Could be.

Have you, personally, had what may be considered a “vision”?

No.

If you think visions are “real” what do you think their source is?

I don't think all visions come from a single source. Their source could be anything from God to insanity.

Do visions come from “god”?

Some do.

Are visions the “work of the devil”?

I'm sure some could be.

Are there “experts” on the subject of “visions”? (Aside from the medical community – of course.)

I don't know.

If you have had a vision, was it just once or do you get them with some frequency?

N/A

Does the recipient of the vision instantly understand their vision?

I think that would depend upon the person and the vision.

IF question 9 is “yes”, then is the recipient also able to explain their vision to others in meaningful terms?

Probably. Which is not to say the explanation would be believed.

If you have visions, do you take them literally or do you think they are highly symbolic?

N/A

Are visions the same as revelations?

That would depend upon the source of the vision. I think that, if a vision was from God, it would be revelatory, but not all revelations from God necessarily come in the form of a vision.

 

[Buttercup]

So, in this instance I am meaning specifically “religious” or “internal” visions that were not “sought out”. They just happened, as if, of their own accord.

I'd like to participate in your interesting thread but want like to ask a couple of questions for clarification of what you mean by "visions".

Are you including any type of extra sensory experience in your definition of visions?

Does this vision have to be a prediction of future events or can it simply be a in the now type of thing? Do you know what I mean?

 

[dawny0826]

Thanks Dawn for sharing. I love the "Adoption" "sign". I think you have also described something I know as "intuitive grasp" where you "just know something" out of the blue. As always, thanks for the good thoughts.

I had an additional experience. I goofed when balancing our checkbook last Christmas and were a little short on cash between pay checks.

I prayed about it and I had a "vision" or a hunch or whatever you want to call it that when I got home from work that day, there would be a check in a card, from my Aunt Cleo that would be written for X amount of dollars and would be in a Christmas card with Cardinals and other little birds on it.

And I was so at peace and certain that this would be that I dismissed all my fears about our financial situation.

And sure enough, I got home and there was a card from my Aunt Cleo, with birds on the cover and a check written for X amount of dollars, just as I'd seen...or had a hunch on.

I was so humbled by that experience and I'm kind of shocked that I didn't remember this until this morning.

I called my Aunt to thank her that night and told her that we so needed the money because I have issues with basic addition and substraction sometimes D ) and she said "Didn't I tell you, when you were younger, you'd never go without?" She knew before sending that we NEEDED it. She always sends something but this was a little more than just "something".

Just a sweet, edifying little experience. I would agree that this is more of an "intuitive grasp" than a bona fide vision experience but I thought I'd share anyway...

 

[FatMan]

Your post does bring out some other questions.

Are visions always true?
Are visions possible during dreams?
Are dreams actually "mini-visions"?
Are visions "waking dreams"?

If a vision isn't "true", then is it a vision or should it be classified as something else? Personally, I only "see things" that aren't concrete visuals when I'm dreaming or in a semi-sleeping state - thus, I classify them as dreams. Now if I were to have images flash in front of me while wholly conscious, then I'd have to re-assess. A situation like that, I'd probably classify as a "waking dream", but can't say I've had them.

My definition of a "vision" is something that you know right away is not a dream, but rather an insight on future events. That's why I get put off by preachers who foist their visions on others. Mainly because I think they are either blatantly lying in order to exhibit power over the congregation, or they are misinterpreting their dreams as being visions. Either that, or I'm just a crusty, cynical *******:yes:

 

[FatMan]

Your post does bring out some other questions.

Are visions always true?
Are visions possible during dreams?
Are dreams actually "mini-visions"?
Are visions "waking dreams"?

If a vision isn't "true", then is it a vision or should it be classified as something else? Personally, I only "see things" that aren't concrete visuals when I'm dreaming or in a semi-sleeping state - thus, I classify them as dreams. Now if I were to have images flash in front of me while wholly conscious, then I'd have to re-assess. A situation like that, I'd probably classify as a "waking dream", but can't say I've had them.

My definition of a "vision" is something that you know right away is not a dream, but rather an insight on future events. That's why I get put off by preachers who foist their visions on others. Mainly because I think they are either blatantly lying in order to exhibit power over the congregation, or they are misinterpreting their dreams as being visions. Either that, or I'm just a crusty, cynical heathen:yes:

 

[autonomous1one1]

Greetings, YmirGF. I normally do not say anything about these type of things but will try to respond from my personal opinions only because you are the one asking. However, I must qualify every answer with an 'open mind' here at the outset because there are other possibilities that I could just as easily have come up with. Suspect that difficulty with these questions has caused a slow beginning for this thread, but maybe others will join us.

Vision?

Do you think visions are “real”?

By one of Webster's definitions {something seen in a dream, trance, or ecstasy; especially : a supernatural appearance that conveys a revelation} believe that I could consider visions to be real.

Do you think visions are symptomatic of “something” else?

Not sure what you mean here by 'else' so couldn't answer this one.

Have you, personally, had what may be considered a “vision”?

I have had three experiences that may be considered visions by some definition. I considered them to be 'waking dreams' at the time of occurrence. They are different from ordinary dreams in that they are of such intensity that one becomes fully aware and conscious of them as they occur and experiences emotion with them; also, one never forgets them.

At the risk of all kinds of misinterpretation, I will share one waking dream to support your thread. This was of a beautiful pink rose that started out as a rose bud but then opened to a full rose with speed like time-lapse photography. I had been studying mysticism before that and had read that mystics sometimes have certain specific visions, one of which is the rose. I had not read about the secret of the vision, however, which I experienced. One views the rose as God, and experiences joy and what I would call a wondrous feeling of 'pleasement.' At the time, I interpreted it as a conscious dream coming from the depths of my being (deep subconscious) based upon the quest and knowledge that I was pumping into my being.

If you think visions are “real” what do you think their source is?

I think they come from the depth of one's being below conscious levels and are brought into consciousness.

Do visions come from “god”?

Some, maybe.

Are visions the “work of the devil”?

No, for I do not believe in such an animal.

Are there “experts” on the subject of “visions”? (Aside from the medical community – of course.)

Don't know, for I have not sought nor studied it.

If you have had a vision, was it just once or do you get them with some frequency?

Basically, several times but not any particular frequency.

Does the recipient of the vision instantly understand their vision?

Sometimes yes and sometimes no but I feel that most likely it takes time to absorb meaning from it.

IF question 9 is “yes”, then is the recipient also able to explain their vision to others in meaningful terms?

Again, I feel after some time.

If you have visions, do you take them literally or do you think they are highly symbolic?

Not sure how to answer this, but believe that I slant towards both a literal and symbolic interpretation based on different aspects of the vision/dream.

Are visions the same as revelations?

IMMHO, to me visions can point the way to truths of 'revelations,' but in actuality, 'revelations' of the kind that 'initiate' religions are different and give a more permanent change of self and being.

 

[Gentoo]

1.Do you think visions are “real”?

Yes, I do.

Do you think visions are symptomatic of “something” else?

Perhaps, but I don't think it matters what caused it, just that you had it.

Have you, personally, had what may be considered a “vision”?

Yes, several

If you think visions are “real” what do you think their source is?

I think they come from 'that which cannot be named."

Do visions come from “god”?

I believe that everything, good or evil comes from my God figures.

Are visions the “work of the devil”?

I don't believe in a devil, so no.

Are there “experts” on the subject of “visions”? (Aside from the medical community – of course.)

I think that's up to the individual to decide, personally, I'd rather rely on my own and my own interpretations of what they mean, if they mean anything... rather than what someone else tells me, as I have no way of knowing if they're telling the truth or not.

If you have had a vision, was it just once or do you get them with some frequency?

I've had several, but they're very infrequent, and about many different subjects. The last one was when I trying to get to sleep after talking to my mom on the phone. She told me that she was sending me a package with a "Halloween surprise" in it. I "saw" a Snoopy stuffed animal wearing a witches hat and holding a pumpkin. Guess what I saw when I opened the package? It wasn't exactly as I saw it in my mind, but all of the elements were there. Of course, that one had no value except that maybe it's possible.

Does the recipient of the vision instantly understand their vision?

Some do, some don't. Some don't realize it when they have a vision. Others look in different places, like dreams. My dreams mean NOTHING, and I know it to be true. My SO, on the other hand, has had psychic dreams. We all have different ways of recieving them, I think.

IF question 9 is “yes”, then is the recipient also able to explain their vision to others in meaningful terms?

As above, some yes and some no. I've never been able to fully explain how I feel in words. Other people have an easier time with that part.

If you have visions, do you take them literally or do you think they are highly symbolic?

Symbolism is lost on me if it's too encoded. I need things to be spelled out more often then not. And if God is sending me these visions, why would he do so in a manner that I won't understand? S/He might as well not send them to me at all.

Are visions the same as revelations?

Depends on who has them and how they interpret them.


Wow, I rambled there......

 

[Random]

The new-ish member Spirit had a vision as described in the General Discussion forum thread. Check it out.

 

[autonomous1one1]

The new-ish member Spirit had a vision as described in the General Discussion forum thread. Check it out.

Greetings Godlike. The posting of Spirit as well as your own were very interesting. Thanks for alerting us. Don't they fit within this thread's scope also? And would it be possible to copy them in if YmirGF agreed so we can build one comprehensive thread on this subject - if that is desirable? Those seem to be visions, (or apparitions?), as YmirGF has defined.

 

[Katzpur]

Not to worry, I'm not going to body slam Mormons.

I knew you wouldn't. If you were going to do that, you'd have probably done so a few hundred posts ago.

I am trying to fathom why, or if, people think visions and visitations belong to "the past" or if they think they might still happen in our day and age.

Now that's an interesting question. I can't count the number of times I've heard people dismiss as absolutely preposterous the idea that a fourteen-year old boy in 1830 could have had a "legitimate" vision, but have no trouble whatsoever buying into the idea that such things happened in biblical times. These are the same people who insist that God is "unchanging" -- a fact which apparently doesn't apply to how He chooses to communicate with us.

 

[Katzpur]

EXACTLY! Why is that? Fear? They feel threatened?

Oh, I don't know... It could be a lot of things. I think a lot of people just accept the Bible without giving it much thought. For some reason, they can accept "on faith" the idea that something miraculous happened three or four thousand years ago, but it requires intellectual acceptance to believe that a similar miracle could happen within the last couple of hundred years. The whole problem with Joseph Smith's First Vision is that it either happened or it didn't. There is no other option. When we challenge someone to accept it as fact, we're asking that they give up a lot of what they had previously believed to be true. Just look at how long people believed that the earth was the center of the universe. It wasn't until the mid-1500s that Copernicus challenged this supposed "fact" and people began to realize that what had been accepted as "gospel truth" for centuries was absolutely false. Thinking the unthinkable can be scary.

 

[kreeden]

Interesting thread YmirGF . Questions I have often wondered about myself , as you likely know .

1. Do you think visions are “real”?
2. Do you think visions are symptomatic of “something” else?

They are as real as anything that we experience . I believe that the reason people tend to have them when they are ill , or tried , or whatever is that under such conditions , they aren't as peroccuplied with everyday things . But no , one does NOT have to be over tired , fevered , nor whatever to have a Vision .

3. Have you, personally, had what may be considered a “vision”?

Yes .

4. If you think visions are “real” what do you think their source is?
5. Do visions come from “god”?
6. Are visions the “work of the devil”?

Ah , that is the big question eh ? The source . Perhaps there isn't a single source ?

7. Are there “experts” on the subject of “visions”? (Aside from the medical community – of course.)

Well , some view Jung as an expert . And as you point out , there are those in the medical community who consider their selves to be experts ... But I think that the true " experts " where " enlightened masters ". The likes of Jesus , The Buddha , and such . Ones who understood their Visions , in and outside of their own times .

8. If you have had a vision, was it just once or do you get them with some frequency?

Hmmm ? A bit of both I guess ? Usually only once for each though . I believe that we get them untill we understand them on some level , although that may be a subconscious level , and we may reject your understanding of the Vision ....

9. Does the recipient of the vision instantly understand their vision?
10. IF question 9 is “yes”, then is the recipient also able to explain their vision to others in meaningful terms?

On some level , yes we always understand . However , humans being the complex creatures that er are , we have a choice to accept or reject that understanding .

For excample , I have often wondered about the Ghost Dance of 1890 . Many Visions came from that Dance , but it would appear that something went wrong . Now I wasn't there . But it is my theory that the people's desire for their freedoms overshadowed their understanding of their Visions . In other words , they had their Visions , they had their " understanding " , but they added their own desires to it .

I hope that I haven't offended anyone by saying that . It is only ... well , it is the only answer that I have been able to come up with . And I do know that I have done the same .

11. If you have visions, do you take them literally or do you think they are highly symbolic?

They can be either , or both , depending upon your conscious understanding . { the subconscious pretty much works on symbols , the conscious forms these symbols into ... well , other symbols that we understand better . } Words are symbols .

12. Are visions the same as revelations?

No . But the understanding of a Vision can be .

Well , that is the way I see Visions , at this time . I an not expert on the matter though .

 

[cardero]

YmirGF writes: Have you, personally, had what may be considered a “vision”?

I'm not a "seer" but I am a "feeler".

 

[kreeden]

Well , we may not be right YmirGF , but I think that you and I are pretty much in agreement . Our explainations are worded differently { ours much better then mine } , but I believe that our main differences are based upon personal views of ourself , and the world .

BTW I got a kick out of a description I once read for Shamanism . They said that it was the search for self induced schizophrenia . I don't think that the guy quite caught on eh ? Or perhaps he was correct ?

 

[autonomous1one1]

Good thoughts YmirGF. Don't believe there is much that I could disagree with. And, as usual, your wisdom has given me greater insights into my own thoughts and experiences. Thanks for you posting.

 

[continuumcomplex]

1. Do you think visions are “real”?
2. Do you think visions are symptomatic of “something” else?
3. Have you, personally, had what may be considered a “vision”?
4. If you think visions are “real” what do you think their source is?
5. Do visions come from “god”?
6. Are visions the “work of the devil”?
7. Are there “experts” on the subject of “visions”? (Aside from the medical community – of course.)
8. If you have had a vision, was it just once or do you get them with some frequency?
9. Does the recipient of the vision instantly understand their vision?
10. IF question 9 is “yes”, then is the recipient also able to explain their vision to others in meaningful terms?
11. If you have visions, do you take them literally or do you think they are highly symbolic?
12. Are visions the same as revelations?

1. Do I think visions are real? That's a very good question. I am not sure; but I would like to think that they do.

2. I don't think I fully understand what you mean by "something" else. If you mean a mental disorder, then yes it is possible. But I would be reluctant to say that all visions indicative of such.

3. This is another question which I have difficulty answering. I have had many instances where I have dreamt something, which later occured and left me with a strong feeling of "deja vu." Whether these are merely coincidences or not I do not know.

Most of these dreams were of things rather insignificant and seemed rather pointless, except that each one of them had a sort of surreal feel to them. I do not dream very often, and so I tend to remember my dreams, even the ones which seem rather meaningless.

For instance, in one such dream I dreamt that I was sitting along a short ledge, looking down at the ground before me. The ground was covered in a full thick green grass, and though I could not see any people (for I was staring at the ground) I knew that there was a person standing before me and one person sitting to either side of me. Several months later, my psychology class took a field trip to Circy Mental Hospital. We explored the facility and went out onto the lawn to interact with some of the patients. I am rather shy and so I did not want to talk to anything, so I sat on a short brick wall on which several others were sitting. I was there for a few minutes before I was suddenly "struck" with a strange sense that I had done this before. Then I remembered my dream. Indeed, there was a person to either side of me, and a guy (who was very agitate) was pacing back and forth in front of me, and the grass was indeed quite full.

4. As for the source of visions, it is difficult to say. I would assume that it is from the human mind or spirit reaching out and interacting either with the world around it or with some other entity which may be greater than itself.

5. Maybe.

6. It's possible that some visions come from or are influenced by spirits seeking to harm that person.

7. I would not, myself, know.

8. I would not say that my own experiences are frequent, but they do happen from time to time. Perhaps once a year, if that often.

9. I doubt it, in most cases.

11. I dunno, if my experiences are visions they seem rather pointless. Must visions even have some greater purpose?

12. I would say, no.

 

[Ryan2065]

Visions are not from god or anything of the sort... You make them up in your own mind and then believe what your mind wants you to believe. People don't get many visions that go against their faith structure or concern things they have never heard about.


Visions are all in peoples minds.