Subduction Zone wrote…….. It looks like your are trying to perform an equivocation fallacy. Census is the correct term here and the date of the Census of Quirinius is well known. That was where the author of Luke screwed up.
The Anointed…….It was not the census of Quirninius, it was the census of Emperor Augustus, which took place while Quirinius was Hegemon in Syria. Looks like you screwed up mate.
Subduction Zone wrote…….. The history of Quirinius is well known. Since he was a prominent Roman records were kept of him.
The Anointed……. He certainly was
Subduction Zone wrote……..Luke says it was the Quirinius was governor of Syria.
The Anointed……. No he didn’t. Luke said that the census took place when Quirinius was Hegemon in Syria.
Subduction Zone wrote……..He did not become governor of Syria until the year 6 CE.
The Anointed……. Correct
Subduction Zone wrote…….. Also there never was an all encompassing census of Rome. Check the records. It does not exist.
The Anointed……. Yes there was, The three
empire-wide censuses were in 28
B.C.,
8 B.C., and 14 A.D. In all probability the
8 B.C.
census fits because in all likelihood it would have taken several years for the bureaucracy of the
census to reach Palestine.
Subduction Zone wrote……..What Rome would do is different Census's at different times. Also under Herod there would have been no census. Herod's kingdom was a vassal state. He paid tribute, he was responsible for the funds that went to Rome. There was no direct taxation. And lastly a census taxes people where they live. Not where they are from The Roman census was for tax purposes. It would do them no good at all to know where people's ancestors lived.
The Anointed……. Who said the census had anything to do with taxation? It was a census of enrolment, much as we have today.
Subduction Zone wrote……..You are relying on the work of apologists. People that will distort history to try to support their errant beliefs. Richard Carrier, a scholar of the time that understands both the language and the history of that period has refuted all of the claims of apologists that I have seen. You might want to read this: The Date of the Nativity in Luke
The Anointed……. And you are relying on atheist scholars such as Carrier in order to support your hatred of God and the Holy Scriptures.
Subduction Zone wrote……..Think of it though. Even today when we have censuses we do not force people to go back to their country of origin. We do census's based upon where people live and it would have been the same back then. You would need to find massive evidence that they did such a crazy pointless task.
The Anointed……. Early in the twentieth century, a papyrus was discovered which contained an edict by G. Vibius Maximus, the Roman governor of Egypt, stating: Since the enrollment by households is approaching, it is necessary to command all who for any reason are out of their own district to return to their own home, in order to perform the usual business of the taxation… (Cobern, C.M. 1929.
The New Archeological Discoveries and their Bearing upon the New Testament. New York and London: Funk & Wagnalls, p. 47; Unger, M.F. 1962.
Archaeology and the New Testament. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, p. 64).
The same papyrus also confirms Luke’s assertion that a man had to bring his family with him when he traveled to his place of ancestry in order to be properly counted by the Roman authorities (Lk. 2:5). The document reads: I register Pakebkis, the son born to me and my wife, Taasies and Taopis in the 10th year of Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus Imperator [Emperor], and request that the name of my aforesaid son Pakeb[k]is be entered on the list” (Boyd, R.T. 1991.
World’s Bible Handbook. Grand Rapids, MI: World Publishing, p. 415).
This sheds light on why Joseph had to bring his highly pregnant wife along with him when he went to Bethlehem. Such discoveries caused the late George A. Barton, Ph.D., Professor of Biblical Literature and Semitic Languages at Bryn Mawr and former Director of the American School of Oriental Research in Jerusalem, to comment: Luke’s statement, that Joseph went up from Nazareth to Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to enroll himself with Mary (Luke 2:4, 5), turns out to be in exact accord with the governmental regulations as we now know them from the papyri.
I will accept the scholarship of George A. Barton, Ph.D., Professor of Semitic Languages at Bryn Mawr and former Director of the American School of Oriental Research in Jerusalem, before your Atheist Richard Carrier.
Bryn Mawr (Big Hill) was originally affiliated with the (Quakers), but by 1893 had become non-denominational.
Luke does not specifically state what the Roman office held by Quirinius actually was when the first registration or enrolment was made in Judaea in 6 B.C. But in reference to the position he held, Luke uses the Greek word “hegemoneuontos tes Surias Kureniou.’ “hegemon,”
We know that in the time of Caligula the African administration, was divided in such a way, that the military power, and with it the foreign policy of the Province, was controlled by a Lieutenant of Augustus, while the internal affairs of the Province were left to the ordinary governor, a Proconsul.
Quirinius was a special Lieutenant of Augustus, who conducted the war against the Homonadenses, while Varus administered the ordinary affairs of Syria. The duties of Quirinius might be described by calling him dux in Latin, and the Greek equivalent is necessarily and correctly hegemon, as Luke has it.
The military command of Quirinius in Syria, lasted for at least two years, and had come to an end before the death of Herod in.4 B.C.,
The atheists, who attempt to denigrate the Holy scriptures, will say that the Roman census which was taken in Israel at the time of the birth of Jesus, was the census of Quirinius, and of course it wasn’t.
Luke specifically states that Emperor Augustus ordered a census to be taken throughout the entire Roman Empire. When this first census took place, Quirinius was Hegemon in Syria. He could not have been taking a census in Judaea and fighting a war against the Homonadenses in Syria at the same time, now could he?
