One God versus Two (Three, Four...) Gods

[robo]

Greetings all:

Many claim "God is one".

Empirically and tangibly, how can we infer there is just one God and not two, three, four or more Gods?

That is, IF there were two Gods instead of one, what would be different in the world?

Would the grass grow longer, would the sun rise later?, etc., etc.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

Greetings all:

Many claim "God is one".

Empirically and tangibly, how can we infer there is just one God and not two, three, four or more Gods?

That is, IF there were two Gods instead of one, what would be different in the world?

Would the grass grow longer, would the sun rise later?, etc., etc.

From Hindu point of view, Ishwar (GOD) is infinite.

I think If God was 1, 2 ect it would not make much difference to many Hindus nor our lifestyle.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I think that the best way to think of God's perspective is thinking of being an author compared to the character.

So think of two authors, and that's what would be different.

 

[Vultar]

I don't believe there are any gods, however I do believe there have been multiple spirits claiming to be the same god. That would go a long way in explaining why the "god" in the bible lacks any consistancy on the way they deal with issues throughout the bible.

As an example, the tower of Babel story has "god" teleport (for lack of a better term) the people to the 4 corners of the earth, however "god" doesn't seem to be able to simply teleport the Jews out of Egypt, or teleport the people off the land to give to the Jews, instead he has them go to war and kill everyone. So the powers of the Deity change from story to story, it doesn't sound like one spirit playing the role of "God" to me...

___________________

Disclaimer: I don't expect anyone to believe what I write.... I'm just a messenger....

 

[Iti oj]

I don't believe there are any gods, however I do believe there have been multiple spirits claiming to be the same god. That would go a long way in explaining why the "god" in the bible lacks any consistancy on the way they deal with issues throughout the bible.

As an example, the tower of Babel story has "god" teleport (for lack of a better term) the people to the 4 corners of the earth, however "god" doesn't seem to be able to simply teleport the Jews out of Egypt, or teleport the people off the land to give to the Jews, instead he has them go to war and kill everyone. So the powers of the Deity change from story to story, it doesn't sound like one spirit playing the role of "God" to me...

___________________

Disclaimer: I don't expect anyone to believe what I write.... I'm just a messenger....

ohh tell me more

 

[Vultar]

ohh tell me more

There are too many examples, but I'll give another...

"God" tells Joseph of the seven good years followed by seven bad years setting up the Isrealites to sell themselves into servetude to Egypt (so they were slaves by choice), However while they are wondering through the desert in Exodus, god makes water come from stones and rain food for the people. Why not just do that for the seven bad years so they didn't have to sell themselves instead of doing it for the 40 years in the desert.

Sounds like god is causing more strife then helping to me.

God seems to go from destroying Sodom and Gommreah to having the people fight for land that he has "given them". Why not just destroy the people in the way to clear the land, the people ended up dead anyways...

It seems these evil spirits pretending to be god like to have as much suffering as possible.

SO.... Why is the world full of suffering and strife? This is because people keep following these evil spirits (who do pretend to be good or at least say they are), and these same people commit some of the most evil acts including killing people because they disagree on how to interpret what is written in the books telling them to supposedly be good.

Can you say "Spanish Inquisition".... I thought you could :yes:

_____________________

Disclaimer: I don't expect anyone to believe what I write.... I'm just a messenger....

 

[robo]

I think that the best way to think of God's perspective is thinking of being an author compared to the character.

So think of two authors, and that's what would be different.

What is wrong with joint-authorship? If you read a book/scientific paper, how would you be able to find out by reading the book/scientific paper whether the authorship is single or joint?

The purpose of the OP is to probe what evidence points to a single God as opposed to multiple Gods.

How would the world be different if there were multiple Gods?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

What is wrong with joint-authorship? If you read a book/scientific paper, how would you be able to find out by reading the book/scientific paper whether the authorship is single or joint?

The purpose of the OP is to probe what evidence points to a single God as opposed to multiple Gods.

How would the world be different if there were multiple Gods?

Nothing, it was a reply to:

That is, IF there were two Gods instead of one, what would be different in the world?

 

[Willamena]

What is wrong with joint-authorship?

Can you have an observer observing from more than his own perspective? It's not so much a case of evidence for only one, as that one is all you really need.

The purpose of the OP is to probe what evidence points to a single God as opposed to multiple Gods.

How would the world be different if there were multiple Gods?

The idea of the "only one" is the idea that opposites can be eliminated. You can look at things as constituent parts, distinct from other parts, or as the whole undivided--two ways of addressing them.

Everything as it is is not different from "god" in the same way that everything that composes the universe is the universe--even if you eliminated all matter but one atom, you'd still have the universe: that atom would be the universe (as the universe is "the sum of all things," it only takes one thing to make a sum). Which is just to point out how the whole can be addressed differently than any of its parts.

The significant "opposite" that is essentially "eliminated" (though not made non-existent) in understanding monotheism is the distinction between you (a "self") and everything that exists that is "not you," bringing you together with the world to be the world.

 

[chinu]

Empirically and tangibly, how can we infer there is just one God and not two, three, four or more Gods?

Firstly: Do any person in this world have two geniune fathers ?

Secondly: Till now the sience has done so many efforts and got unsucessed in finding just one, than is it fair to talk about two or more ?

Thirdly: if there are more god than one, than the word "Compleate libration" or "Salvation" doesn't make any sence.

Finally: More than one person is considred as rush in heaven.

That is, IF there were two Gods instead of one, what would be different in the world?

Than we humans would have been able to enjoy the mug full of sparrow's milk.
And axlender the great would have pragnent and alive till now.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Many claim "God is one."

Empirically and tangibly, how can we infer there is just one God and not two, three, four or more Gods?

The scriptures of multiple religions stress this (including some that, despite this, are popularly seen as polytheistic).

Peace,

Bruce

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Greetings all:

Many claim "God is one".

Empirically and tangibly, how can we infer there is just one God and not two, three, four or more Gods?

Firstly, everything that exists in the world is unique. You cannot find 2 things that are exactly the same. We cannot find 2 flowers, human, or any other thing to be absolutely the same as another one.

Therefore God also cannot have an equal.

God by definition is absolute perfection.
Now let's say there is more than one God. Then these gods, each one would be different from another one. Since God is absolute perfection, then it turns out that other gods which are not the same as the absolute perfect God, are not perfect. Therefore they cannot be called God. From this argument it turns out that, there can be only One God, who is absolute perfection and incomparable!

 

[Quintessence]

Ignoring for a moment that many god-concepts are not empirically tangible in the first place...

It's much easier to make the case for multiple gods than for a single god by virtue of one simple fact: if you study the history of the human religious experience, our religious experience is inherently polytheistic. That is, our experience of god(s) differ significantly from one culture to another and from one person to another. Plus, there are all sorts of awkward problems that arise from posing a one-god that don't happen in polytheism (though granted this depends on what the claimed attributes of the one-god are).

 

[robo]

The scriptures of multiple religions stress this (including some that, despite this, are popularly seen as polytheistic).

Peace,

Bruce

Well, non-believers do not consider your scripture or any scripture as a valid epistemological source.

This is also why I stressed empiricism and inference in my OP. Note:

Empirically and tangibly, how can we infer there is just one God and not two, three, four or more Gods?

 

[robo]

Firstly, everything that exists in the world is unique. You cannot find 2 things that are exactly the same. We cannot find 2 flowers, human, or any other thing to be absolutely the same as another one.

Therefore God also cannot have an equal.

God by definition is absolute perfection.
Now let's say there is more than one God. Then these gods, each one would be different from another one. Since God is absolute perfection, then it turns out that other gods which are not the same as the absolute perfect God, are not perfect. Therefore they cannot be called God. From this argument it turns out that, there can be only One God, who is absolute perfection and incomparable!

Nice attempt at the variation of the ontological argument. But there are a variety of rebuttals to the ontological argument. I myself made one here.

But still, this does not answer my OP. How would the world be different IF there were two or more gods? None of them need to be the ontologically greater than the other.

 

[jasonwill2]

I think that the best way to think of God's perspective is thinking of being an author compared to the character.

So think of two authors, and that's what would be different.

Being a writer, and trying this before, I can tell you that it would be pure hell... I can't imagine what two creator gods would do about it.

There are too many examples, but I'll give another...

"God" tells Joseph of the seven good years followed by seven bad years setting up the Isrealites to sell themselves into servetude to Egypt (so they were slaves by choice), However while they are wondering through the desert in Exodus, god makes water come from stones and rain food for the people. Why not just do that for the seven bad years so they didn't have to sell themselves instead of doing it for the 40 years in the desert.

Sounds like god is causing more strife then helping to me.

God seems to go from destroying Sodom and Gommreah to having the people fight for land that he has "given them". Why not just destroy the people in the way to clear the land, the people ended up dead anyways...

It seems these evil spirits pretending to be god like to have as much suffering as possible.

SO.... Why is the world full of suffering and strife? This is because people keep following these evil spirits (who do pretend to be good or at least say they are), and these same people commit some of the most evil acts including killing people because they disagree on how to interpret what is written in the books telling them to supposedly be good.

Can you say "Spanish Inquisition".... I thought you could :yes:

_____________________

Disclaimer: I don't expect anyone to believe what I write.... I'm just a messenger....

I suspect that most would answer this by saying that he was testing them and didn't want to make it too easy. Then again if he already knows, why would he? Some might say then to mold them into the kind of people he wanted, but hey, why didn't he just create them the way he wanted? Some might answer that with freewill, at which point I say it really isn't free if he's pulling the strings to point us in those directions :cover:

What is wrong with joint-authorship? If you read a book/scientific paper, how would you be able to find out by reading the book/scientific paper whether the authorship is single or joint?

The purpose of the OP is to probe what evidence points to a single God as opposed to multiple Gods.

How would the world be different if there were multiple Gods?

I doubt there would be much difference. I believe that the Universe started with one god, Leviathan, then he split off part of him into Ha-Satan, which became more like a son than like the actual him, and then Ha-Satan went to work to create life, and then from there a tiny fraction those living creatures went on to become gods, meaning that there are in fact many gods, but only ONE THE GOD: as in only one Creator.

Firstly: Do any person in this world have two geniune fathers ?

Secondly: Till now the sience has done so many efforts and got unsucessed in finding just one, than is it fair to talk about two or more ?

Thirdly: if there are more god than one, than the word "Compleate libration" or "Salvation" doesn't make any sence.

Finally: More than one person is considred as rush in heaven.

Than we humans would have been able to enjoy the mug full of sparrow's milk.
And axlender the great would have pragnent and alive till now.

I don't get how you got those conclusions of how it would be different, but I will say that I would imagine that the follower-god relationship shouldn't be taken as literally as a blood-and-flesh relationship of son and father.

Firstly, everything that exists in the world is unique. You cannot find 2 things that are exactly the same. We cannot find 2 flowers, human, or any other thing to be absolutely the same as another one.

Therefore God also cannot have an equal.

God by definition is absolute perfection.
Now let's say there is more than one God. Then these gods, each one would be different from another one. Since God is absolute perfection, then it turns out that other gods which are not the same as the absolute perfect God, are not perfect. Therefore they cannot be called God. From this argument it turns out that, there can be only One God, who is absolute perfection and incomparable!

What if they are identical twins, like a bacteria that splits into two identical organisms?

Ignoring for a moment that many god-concepts are not empirically tangible in the first place...

It's much easier to make the case for multiple gods than for a single god by virtue of one simple fact: if you study the history of the human religious experience, our religious experience is inherently polytheistic. That is, our experience of god(s) differ significantly from one culture to another and from one person to another. Plus, there are all sorts of awkward problems that arise from posing a one-god that don't happen in polytheism (though granted this depends on what the claimed attributes of the one-god are).

True statements.

Nice attempt at the variation of the ontological argument. But there are a variety of rebuttals to the ontological argument. I myself made one here.

But still, this does not answer my OP. How would the world be different IF there were two or more gods? None of them need to be the ontologically greater than the other.

Indeed, if gods exist, there is definitely more evidence for many gods as opposed to one god.

 

[Vultar]

Firstly, everything that exists in the world is unique. You cannot find 2 things that are exactly the same. We cannot find 2 flowers, human, or any other thing to be absolutely the same as another one.

Therefore God also cannot have an equal.

God by definition is absolute perfection.
Now let's say there is more than one God. Then these gods, each one would be different from another one. Since God is absolute perfection, then it turns out that other gods which are not the same as the absolute perfect God, are not perfect. Therefore they cannot be called God. From this argument it turns out that, there can be only One God, who is absolute perfection and incomparable!

There' s your first issue - defining god as perfection
Your second flaw is that there can't be two perfect but different things
But since there are no gods - that means there is no perfection (something which can easily be seen)

Have you seen "God", I haven't and I've been to the afterlife 4 times...

_________________

Disclaimer: I don't expect anyone to believe what I write.... I'm just a messenger....

 

[jasonwill2]

There' s your first issue - defining god as perfection
Your second flaw is that there can't be two perfect but different things
But since there are no gods - that means there is no perfection (something which can easily be seen)

Have you seen "God", I haven't and I've been to the afterlife 4 times...

_________________

Disclaimer: I don't expect anyone to believe what I write.... I'm just a messenger....

I seriously doubt you've died four times. You only live once and you only die once, or you never die or live at all.

 

[Vultar]

I seriously doubt you've died four times. You only live once and you only die once, or you never die or live at all.

Doubt if you like, (of course, you're not the one with the nifty scars)

__________________

Disclaimer: I don't expect anyone to believe what I write.... I'm just a messenger....

 

[jasonwill2]

Doubt if you like, (of course, you're not the one with the nifty scars)

__________________

Disclaimer: I don't expect anyone to believe what I write.... I'm just a messenger....

Having a near-death experience and dying are two completely different things.