Only Atheists can be Truly Moral

[ERLOS]

Theists believe that the rewards will be received,
Atheists don't count on any rewards at all.
The dissatisfaction comes from the lack of any rewards gained,
and the presence of a giver of those rewards.
True satisfaction comes from the action of the doing,
not the reward itself.

Sure, all true, except for the first paragraph. Not all theists are living with the expectation of reward. It's probably true all of us believe there's more to things than 'this world' but in fact the reward is in the present knowledge and experience of spiritual help and guidance in 'this' world, mostly. Whatever it is, it works, boss ...

 

[ERLOS]

Even reading the article, it fails. The researchers were looking at internal Vatican documents, which would be written by people within the organization to support their agenda. The church has never been known for objectivity. Further, it says the pope at the time instituted the inquisitions to "insure that heretics had a fair trial", as if someone should be tried at all for heresy.

Read it again with an open mind, without dismissing it because you don't want to like it.

 

[`mud]

hey Erlos,
AS to: "Theists believe that the rewards will be received..."
pay attention to the words "will be received", in your heaven,
or in this present world if one wishes. I was referring to the future rewards that a Catholic could receive. But I see where you could take it another way.
Your last sentence doesn't seem to be complete, splain please ?

 

[ERLOS]

hey Erlos,
AS to: "Theists believe that the rewards will be received..."
pay attention to the words "will be received", in your heaven,
or in this present world if one wishes. I was referring to the future rewards that a Catholic could receive. But I see where you could take it another way.
Your last sentence doesn't seem to be complete, splain please ?

Last sentence? Oh: what I'm saying is that I don't think God is limited in reach or activity, definitely not to one book or religion. Anyone who sincerely 'needs' divine help/guidance is sure to receive it. But only when they invite it, because we have free will and angels cannot come to us without our own invitation.

So if after long travels I have come back to to the simple yet all encompassing Christ, it surely doesnt limit God to Christianity. It's my personal belief.

EDIT: I believe Christ completes the circle containing all partial truths. But others have their own beliefs and religions and it's not my job to try to correct others' personal beliefs to conform with my own.

 

[`mud]

But...……….`God` is Jesus and the `spirit` isn't `He` ?
How can one choose a channel ? And what religion ?

 

[`mud]

Why would one need to invite `God` or Jesus or the `Spirit`,
aren't they already there, aren't we already breathing them ?

 

[ERLOS]

But...……….`God` is Jesus and the `spirit` isn't `He` ?
How can one choose a channel ? And what religion ?

Sorry I edited my post after you replied. God is a lot of things, that's the point. But God is a personal experience, not a future reward. Or should be. Imo.

 

[`mud]

Don't we already digest Jesus' blood and His flesh ?

 

[ERLOS]

Why would one need to invite `God` or Jesus or the `Spirit`,
aren't they already there, aren't we already breathing them ?

But it's important that we have free will. Angels can watch us stumbling around in -- no pun intended -- the mud, but divine law prevents them from reaching down to pull us out unless we ask. Don't ask me to explain why, etc. I don't know why God set up the universe and it's laws, physical and spiritual, the way (he) did. Of course I don't know why.

 

[ERLOS]

Don't we already digest Jesus' blood and His flesh ?

Christ at the last supper broke bread and promised that from thence onward he would be truly present in the sacrament. It's a mystery. It's not open to normal logical argument.

 

[`mud]

I think maybe you have to talk your Priest !

 

[ERLOS]

I think maybe you have to talk your Priest !

Why? Like I said scripture is the shell of the nut. So is the Catholic Church. The CC has preserved it down through centuries of years. There's a huge amount of misunderstanding. The church wasn't and isn't the evil overlord many portray. In dark times, for all its faults and mistakes and bad clergy, the Church was there for ordinary people to seek out some peace and spiritual.values.

The church allows discussion. It changes, slowly and cautiously, but it does change.

A priest isn't going to tell me what I have to believe. A priest will tell me what the Church believes. It's not the same. Doesn't say what I have to think or believe.

 

[`mud]

What you believe is what you believe, so may it.
So, be careful what facts you believe in.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Faith in life is hope, so dis-belief in life or death hopeless (doom).

That's not an answer. More like a bumper sticker.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Not believe some evidence that even babies seem to show rudimentary forms of morality then? Plus the evidence from many other animal species. Seems to me that morality is deeply ingrained in humans and is far older than any religion. Not something that can be easily proved though, other than by inference from other animal species and our innate tendencies as mentioned.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-moral-life-of-babies/

Not really what I meant. Look at it this way, what I can example of the rudimentary morality shown by a baby?
Guaranteed it's an action.

 

[viole]

Yawn ...

Why just Christians?

What sbout Buddhists? Hindus? Taoist? Moslems?

Why do so many atheists come to a faith website? Its so funny. In fact the majority here seem to be atheists. So you'll find yourself in good company to air intelligent superiority over the one-third of the world population who are Christian. Never mind all the other believers of all the countless other faiths and religions?

The day you guys are like believers in garden fairies, and do not try to force policy that affects everyone (e.g. abortion, gay marriage, science education, stem research, etc. ) because you believe imaginary beings agree with you, is the day you probably will get rid of us.

Ciao

- viole
- viole