Opinion on Obama's Immigration Executive Action

[esmith]

Well I am sure that there are numerous members of this forum that are in favor of what Obama put forward in his immigration remarks and will be implemented in his Executive Order. However, I am sure that there are also others that have a different opinion. So, how say you?

Since I started this I get the first chance to an opinion.
To me I see this as nothing more than basically a hissy fit and nothing more than a political maneuver. Obama had 2 years to do something about immigration when he owned the Congress, yet failed to act. In addition, he took no action until he lost the Senate, knowing full well that a Republican controlled Senate and House would put forth an immigration package that he did not like and would be forced to veto. This current Executive action can not be overturned except by the SCOTUS (it will have to go that far) and that will take years. Obama could care less what this action could possibly cost the Democratic Party, but has wet dreams about what problems it could cause the Republican Party if they over reacts to his actions. Now, I agree that our immigration system, along with other major problems facing this country need to be addressed. But by Obama taking this action he has caused greater animosity between himself and the new Congress.
Now, in addition there is an excellent article that points out the omissions that Obama failed to cover that are facts and not hyperbole.
FACT CHECK: Obama's claims on illegal immigration - Yahoo News

There are other problems that many do not understand.
His action will in all probability cause and influx of illegal aliens
Obama and others say that it will be a tax boon when this people start paying taxes; What they do not understand is that the majority will get back more than the paid in due to various tax laws.
What does this say to those that have followed the law and are still waiting for permission to enter and work in this country legally.
There are more issues but I have written more than I normally do and my fingers are tired.

 

[ShivaFan]

A demagogue. IMHO.

$30 billion more dollars a year. That is what these 5 million illegals are going to cost us who now can sign up for Obamacare. But I don't care about the "issue", I care about how it was just done.

A strongarm President who rules by throngs of foreigners from South of the border which will now be an endless stream coming in waves and overwhelming every other people of the world, who rules by not enforcing laws, to use non-enforcement as a cudgel on others, and keep in mind what he just did is not what some are saying, it is not actually amnesty though we will all have to use that word to keep it "simple" - but what he just did is temporary and thus locking in a dependency for these hordes to an Imperial Presidency and to Fascism to do one temporary unconstitutional act after another or suddenly they are once again in "the shadows". This is the same sort of lies as Obamacare. You watch.

The political class was never interested in securing the Southern border - in fact they want to make SURE they can get in. Both Republicans and Democrats. And the big money interests of the Republicans have been worse than even the Democrats trying to make SURE they can get in. The same "checkpants" Relublicans want to control and straightjacket the grass root TEA party class who actually put them in power just as Obama wants to control and straightjacket the illiterate illegals into dependence on his regime. He didn't give them any of the things they think, what it actually is and what they have been led to think, are two different stories.

About 20 minutes ago, I just gave a generous donation to the GOP Leadership. Why?

Because that is how this works. Before you can even TELL them what you want, you have to pay the money FIRST. That is called "natural law". It is the ugly dirty truth of the matter. It is true in America, true in India, true in Brazil, true in Germany, true period. Not good, but true.

So if that is what it takes, that is what I will do to get a WORD in. And I found out, I am not alone. Because there is literal rage right now, not on what was done but how it was done. Lots of money is going to them right now to pay the entrance fee to see the Mughals Court and to "be heard". We are going to let them know. I encourage others to pay the fee and then tell them what you want. Be unafraid, straight, brief, to the point and don't hesitate to add a tone to it. That is what we are doing right now, yes it is not pleasant. But man, it is happening right now.

Money talks. But not always. It depends on who you are talking to. The "I'm so cool" high tech with money thought they were going to get the "executive" H1 Visas so they can get a lot more smart people from India in here. They gave Obama a lot of money for this "executive action".

But they didn't get squat. Nothing. Now they are outraged.

But Obama doesn't want more smart people from India. He wants a permanent underclass of illiterates from South of the border to lock in a dependence on him and his Fascism. And these illiterates are open to Fascism because that is part of their illiterate gullible feudal culture.

How does the American people have a say over their own future under this demagogue? Where are we heard? A pen has the power, not Americans disfranchised by a pen.

Forget the "words", remember the endless lies.

The Democrats are a totalitarian mindset.

 

[Paradox22]

A strongarm President who rules by throngs of foreigners from South of the border which will now be an endless stream coming in waves and overwhelming every other people of the world, who rules by not enforcing laws, to use non-enforcement as a cudgel on others, and keep in mind what he just did is not what some are saying, it is not actually amnesty though we will all have to use that word to keep it "simple" - but what he just did is temporary and thus locking in a dependency for these hordes to an Imperial Presidency and to Fascism to do one temporary unconstitutional act after another or suddenly they are once again in "the shadows

That's a heck of a sentence. Just a little hint: Periods are not a precious commodity. Feel free to use some.

About 20 minutes ago, I just gave a generous donation to the GOP Leadership. Why?

Because that is how this works. Before you can even TELL them what you want, you have to pay the money FIRST. That is called "natural law".

I hope you got your money's worth. What did you tell the GOP and what did they have to say about it?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It is the only power he has left
so why would he not use executive action.
he is not up for re election so he has no one to keep onside.

 

[ShivaFan]

Now the Imperial President is in Vegas addressing a crowd, but there are also protestors who have shown up opposed to his unconstitutional act.

No illegal alien is in the shadows. That is another sack of manure. Those who followed the legal path have been the actual ones in the shadows, now they are put out as fools but likely a class of fools who are not illiterates as the invaders but taken as fools who did not come from worlds where they have the convenience of living on the border which they can just run over like those running over the Mexican border right now. Those people living on the South side of the Mexican border, they are the special ones. They have a huge advantage over everyone else. Too bad the others who are trying to escape very real persecution weren't born in Mexico or Honduras. They are not special people I guess. Unless they are rich enough to buy a plane ticket to Mexico. But there are only so many flights. Not as easy as already being right there, ready to go, no plane ticket is needed.

Governing against the will of the people. That is what this is. This is not addressing the problem but magnifying the problem. More will horde in from South of the Border as a result, not less, the opportunity to balance resources for all others of the world will have to take a back seat to the special people. What should we call these special ones who now can rush and grab up all the resources while others, well, are "too far" to be gate crashers and to shove to the front of the line?

What should we call the special ones? The "shirtless ones"? That will add a nice sympathy touch to it all. Why not just "the special ones"?

 

[Valjean]

It's not the Democrats who are obstructionist and who plot to undermine the other party, Esmith, it's the Republicans. They've been trying to undermine the presidency, even at the expense of the American people, since the evening of Obama's inauguration -- Google Caucus Room Plot.

The American people want immigration reform. It's the Job of our representatives to realize the desires of their constituents.

The Senate has already passed the immigration reform bill the Republicans say they want and are complaining Obama refuses to work with them on. It passed with a whopping 68 votes, but when it was sent to the House, Boenner caved to the minority hard-liners and tabled it, knowing it would have passed had it been introduced. So who's the obstructionist? Who's the autocrat?
The Bill's been sitting right there on Boenner's desk for the past year and a half.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

To me I see this as nothing more than basically a hissy fit ...

Nope. This …

But Obama doesn't want more smart people from India. He wants a permanent underclass of illiterates from South of the border to lock in a dependence on him and his Fascism.

… is a hissy fit.

 

[ShivaFan]

This is another farce, when Americans say they want reform, this isn't the reform they want.

The American people want the Republicans to set the agenda. That means they want the Democrats to comprimise with the Republicans. The immigration reform Americans want is to secure the border with Mexico and proof that it is secure, to prevent one demographic from looting all the limited resources of a nation, and to have controlled immigration and workers visas and guest worker programs and also where many different and diverse demographics from a global perspective have an equal chance based on how they can contribute to a nation they wish to join. No one demographic should have an advantage as part of manipulation by a political party to drive up party registration by favoring one demographic or allowing hordes of that demographic to invade illegally a nation to simply out number another demographic.

No President can set a pathway to citizenship. He cannot give citizenship to a cache of foreigners. He cannot give benefits. He cannot issue work permits unless reviewed on a case-by-case basis by an agency approved by Congress. Enterprise benefits only come through Congress and funded by Congress. Congress cannot be ordered to pay for such things by a President, that would be Fascism.

The bleeding gash will rip further open. This will not result in better relations with Mexico. It will exasperate a power vacuum in the region, empower the drug cartels more, and in time will result in war and further chaos inside of Mexico and then, in the end, in war between the U.S. and Mexico.

In January the Republicans in the Senate will jump to 53 seats or even likely 54 depending on the outcome of a Dec. 6 run-off election in Louisiana, the Republicans will hold a strong majority. They will then be only a few Democratic votes shy of a filibuster-proof coalition that could pass long-term legislation funding every aspect of the government except those operations in the Department of Homeland Security or whatever.

Will this be the last 6 million? Or the next 6 million be the last? Or the next? Or the next 20 million? Or the next? Or when?

There are now Democrats coming out against this violation of powers.

 

[esmith]

It's not the Democrats who are obstructionist and who plot to undermine the other party, Esmith, it's the Republicans. They've been trying to undermine the presidency, even at the expense of the American people, since the evening of Obama's inauguration -- Google Caucus Room Plot.

The American people want immigration reform. It's the Job of our representatives to realize the desires of their constituents.

The Senate has already passed the immigration reform bill the Republicans say they want and are complaining Obama refuses to work with them on. It passed with a whopping 68 votes, but when it was sent to the House, Boenner caved to the minority hard-liners and tabled it, knowing it would have passed had it been introduced. So who's the obstructionist? Who's the autocrat?
The Bill's been sitting right there on Boenner's desk for the past year and a half.

Yes, immigration reform is necessary. However, this is a Constitution based Federal Republic with strong democratic convictions. If one party disagrees with the other party then by not agreeing to pass laws that they disagree with can not be considered "obstructionist". Yes, the Senate passed a immigration proposal and sent it to the House and the House failed to act on it. Now I disagree with this action just as I disagree with the actions of Harry Reid not bringing bills that were passed by the House to the Senate floor. So, could one not say that the Democrats are "obstructionist" also? Of course you won't because you disagree with the bills passed by the House. So, back to immigration reform. Yes the American public want immigration reform; however, they want it done by Congressional action, not by Presidential fiat.

 

[Willamena]

In my underinformed opinion, I'm just astounded that it came to this, that nothing was done about making these (eligible) immigrants citizens before now.

 

[ShivaFan]

Spot on, esmith. This is about how this was done and is a frightening precedent and fascist. And now compromise is even more problematic. This Imperial President has actually made the situation worse, Americans will not back him on it.

I also want reform, meaning specifically securing the Southern border with verification over 2 years it is secure, parallel guest worker programs and then later citizenship for those who were brought here as youth and a reprieve for their parents. Further chain migration not allowed. Then I want more immigrants come in from non-"Hispanic" areas of the world to offset the unfair advantage the gate crashers had from South of the border (with the exception for Cubans who should have admission increased).

 

[Willamena]

Spot on, esmith. This is about how this was done and is a frightening precedent and fascist. And now compromise is even more problematic. This Imperial President has actually made the situation worse, Americans will not back him on it.

Those who are impacted will.
Forget The Pundits: Reactions To Obama's Speech From The Immigrants Who Are Actually Impacted | ThinkProgress

 

[Mister_T]

This executive order really isn't that great and isn't close to the type of reform that is needed for immigration, but that won't stop the far right from having an aneurysm and wasting tons of time and taxpayer money trying to stop it because Obama's name is attached to it.

 

[Riverwolf]

This executive order really isn't that great and isn't close to the type of reform that is needed for immigration, but that won't stop the far right from having an aneurysm and wasting tons of time and taxpayer money trying to stop it because Obama's name is attached to it.

Part of the game in US politics is that if the President represents the opposing party, then anything he (or she, hopefully in the future) does, regardless of what it is, regardless of whether your own party is supposed to stand by it, regardless of whether or not it helps you; it is indicative of fascist imperialism.

I and other liberals did it with Bush, too. I even once emailed the White House during that cycle, and literally called him "Emperor Bush." If the repubs get in the office next cycle, then my side will be doing it again.

For myself, though, I've come to recognize the game they play for what it is.

US's fascism isn't in its government, and frankly never really can be. Imperialistic, sure, but imperialism involves taking over other places and imposing your own culture on them. US has been doing that for decades, now. It's not fascist. Not in the least bit.

This statement:

This is about how this was done and is a frightening precedent and fascist.

is, itself, proof that it's not.

 

[ShivaFan]

No, this isn't the "far right", this is middle America reacting to an out of control Imperial President exceeding his constitutional authorty and Americans are against how he did it. The far cannot accept that, just as they cannot accept that Americans threw the Democrats out.

This is exceeding the constitutional role of the President by ordering the agencies and bureaucracies and police enforcement to ignore and thereby violate the laws enacted by the representatives of the American people - one President does not have any such authority because that would be Fascism. Ordering an agency not to do something is only appropriate regionally if in some cases there is a State law enacted within Constitutional parameters by a State Legislature or State proposition that may counter existing Federal law and thereby discretionary, or in accordance with law passed by Congress nationally. There is no unilateral right by the President. We are a nation of divided government, not an Imperial President. To do so is Fascism.

Congress establishes the law in this case. A President has zero authority to order police, agencies, government, to not comply with the law. These agencies and the police are not the personal gestapo agents of the President, they are accountable to the American people and laws are the domain of Congress, not an Imperial President.

The President has no prosecutorial discretion to give effective legal status, it doesn't exist. And any such discretion in terms of protection from prosecution, no matter what branch, is only made on a case-by-case basis and not to groups and thus the proper channel is to strike down a law or write a new law which is not the role of a President but Congress.

The President has zero legal authority to issue benefits. None. This is the domain of Congress. He has no authority to order agencies to issue such work permits if they amount to a benefit that violates laws on legal status, these agencies are not the personal gestapo of the President, this is writing a law which he has no authority to do and which belongs to Congress. He can request work permits, but only in accordance with the laws enacted by Congress.

Tuff, we are going to fight this fascism.

 

[JerryL]

$30 billion more dollars a year. That is what these 5 million illegals are going to cost us who now can sign up for Obamacare.

Cost us in lost revenue from them? (Study: Immigrants put billions more into Medicare than they use - The Washington Post

How do you think their healthcare was handled last month vs this month?

But I don't care about the "issue", I care about how it was just done.

Same way Bush did it.

A strongarm President who rules by throngs of foreigners from South of the border which will now be an endless stream coming in waves and overwhelming every other people of the world, who rules by not enforcing laws, to use non-enforcement as a cudgel on others, and keep in mind what he just did is not what some are saying, it is not actually amnesty though we will all have to use that word to keep it "simple" - but what he just did is temporary and thus locking in a dependency for these hordes to an Imperial Presidency and to Fascism to do one temporary unconstitutional act after another or suddenly they are once again in "the shadows". This is the same sort of lies as Obamacare. You watch.

Like happened after Bush did it?

About 20 minutes ago, I just gave a generous donation to the GOP Leadership. Why?

Cause you want a republican to do this, like Bush did, rather than a president.

 

[Awoon1]

If Obama is wrong/right then let the SCOTUS decide.

 

[Riverwolf]

No, this isn't the "far right",

...

Tuff, we are going to fight this fascism.

So do you, or do you not, think it's fascism; i.e., far right?

'Cause if all you're doing is deliberately being hyperbolic, that doesn't exactly help your case. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[Mister_T]

No, this isn't the "far right", this is middle America reacting to an out of control Imperial President exceeding his constitutional authorty and Americans are against how he did it. The far cannot accept that, just as they cannot accept that Americans threw the Democrats out.

It's reacting alright: Over-reacting. Here's a recent article outlining executive orders from every single president.

Every President’s Executive Orders In One Chart | FiveThirtyEight

No, this is not "Middle America." This is most certainly the far right having an aneurysm. Facts be damned, though.

 

[Mister_T]

Part of the game in US politics is that if the President represents the opposing party, then anything he (or she, hopefully in the future) does, regardless of what it is, regardless of whether your own party is supposed to stand by it, regardless of whether or not it helps you; it is indicative of fascist imperialism.

I and other liberals did it with Bush, too. I even once emailed the White House during that cycle, and literally called him "Emperor Bush." If the repubs get in the office next cycle, then my side will be doing it again.

For myself, though, I've come to recognize the game they play for what it is.

And if the left does it again next time we get a Republican in the White House, it will be wrong when they do it too. Just because one side does it, doesn't mean the other gets a green light for doing it too. It's not a game when we're talking about our livelihood and well being and nothing will ever get done in this country if people are just viewing as such.