Opinions On The Following Story

[esmith]

Was reading through another forum site and the following story was presented. Now, I'm wondering if this is a violation of separation of church and state. We know that there have be a few if not many issues brought forward dealing with public schools and religion.
Now my thoughts are if they, the school, is teaching a religion then they are in the wrong. If they are not then no foul no harm. However, as the article reads I think they, the school, is in the wrong.
Opinions?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...kids-school-after-objecting-to-islam-lessons/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/2...graduation-over-pushback-on-islam-lesson.html

 

[Rival]

This is pretty much what we did in the first few terms of my Religious Studies class. It's called learning about Islam; it's no big deal.

 

[Revoltingest]

It sounds too much to me like the school is teaching the religion.
I'd refused to recite Xian ****, & I'd have never recited that ***** either.

 

[Skwim]

From the article. One can't help but conclude from the following below, particularly item b., that this is indoctrination. And note that despite the title Peaceful Islam vs. radical Fundamental Islam, there is no actual comparison, merely assertions. For instance, where is the comparison, the "vs." in c. "Beginning in the 1970s and 1980s Islam reemerged as a potent political force, associated with both reform and revolution"? There isn't any! This is bogus Islamic crap being passed off as educational material.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

If they tried to teach something about a Christian religion they would be in more trouble than you can imagine but since it is about another religion you will not see any protest. It is not that religion is banned from schools but only that Christianity is banned. Another sign of the direction the country is going. We will all be under Islam rules before you know it and the government will do nothing to stop it.

 

[Kori]

Schools go too far in a lot of cases. Since many of them think they can dictate a students personal life.

 

[Draka]

Every time I see something about this kind of brouhaha it is invariably a Christian throwing a tissy over the learning about Islam. What is never brought up until late in the story, if at all, is that the lessons about Islam are happening in a class which also covers Christianity and other religions and their effects upon culture and history. The what and why they believe what they believe plays a part in the what and how something happened in history and the why a culture or society is the way it is. Merely learning about a religion, knowing the words/prayers said does not make one a member of said religion. That requires belief. If you do not believe then no amount of learning about a statement of faith or pillars of a religion is going to make you a member of said religion. We are bombarded with Christian information all the time. Constantly. It goes by without most people even noticing because it is so ingrained in our culture that we don't even notice it anymore. Especially if you are Christian. People need to chill out. Learning something doesn't hurt you. It informs you. It makes you more knowledgeable. There is no harm in that except the hit that prejudice in society takes.

 

[Revoltingest]

Every time I see something about this kind of brouhaha it is invariably a Christian throwing a tissy over the learning about Islam. What is never brought up until late in the story, if at all, is that the lessons about Islam are happening in a class which also covers Christianity and other religions and their effects upon culture and history. The what and why they believe what they believe plays a part in the what and how something happened in history and the why a culture or society is the way it is. Merely learning about a religion, knowing the words/prayers said does not make one a member of said religion. That requires belief. If you do not believe then no amount of learning about a statement of faith or pillars of a religion is going to make you a member of said religion. We are bombarded with Christian information all the time. Constantly. It goes by without most people even noticing because it is so ingrained in our culture that we don't even notice it anymore. Especially if you are Christian. People need to chill out. Learning something doesn't hurt you. It informs you. It makes you more knowledgeable. There is no harm in that except the hit that prejudice in society takes.

This heathen has never been an Xian, & I'd absolutely refuse to recite anyone's scripture.
It's one thing learn a survey of cultures including religion, but this goes too far for this fire breathing atheist.
Hell, I refused to say the Pledge Of Allegiance, either version (secular or Xian).
I am willing to take deities' & prophets' names in vain, however.

 

[Augustus]

Now my thoughts are if they, the school, is teaching a religion then they are in the wrong. If they are not then no foul no harm. However, as the article reads I think they, the school, is in the wrong.
Opinions?

I think people need to worry a bit less.

Teaching people about the world they live in is the purpose of education.

particularly item b.

I agree that this one made me go hmmmm, although it's probably just a teacher who means well but is stereotyping a bit rather than something nefarious.

And note that despite the title Peaceful Islam vs. radical Fundamental Islam, there is no actual comparison, merely assertions. For instance, where is the comparison, the "vs." in c. "Beginning in the 1970s and 1980s Islam reemerged as a potent political force, associated with both reform and revolution"? There isn't any! This is bogus Islamic crap being passed off as educational material.

It's just a fact though. It's also something that more people should be aware of. Most people don't understand how recent much contemporary radical Islamist ideology is.

 

[crossfire]

I don't see a problem with learning the five pillars of Islam, learning about the shahada or about the role of calligraphy. However, making the student recite the shahada or learn the calligraphy for it as an assignment is over the line, imo, especially for a World History class, and especially if it is a course required for graduation. Banning the father from the school for protesting or asking for an alternative is way over the line, especially since some students are granted religious exemptions/alternative assignments for other things.

 

[Skwim]

I agree that this one made me go hmmmm, although it's probably just a teacher who means well but is stereotyping a bit rather than something nefarious.

To me the printing looks too professional for a teacher to bother creating, although even if it did come from an outside source the teacher had the discretion to not use it.

It's just a fact though. It's also something that more people should be aware of. Most people don't understand how recent much contemporary radical Islamist ideology is.

Probably true; however, it fails to adhere to the goal set by the title, Peaceful Islam vs. radical Fundamental Islam. The title is a sham.


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[Skwim]

If they tried to teach something about a Christian religion they would be in more trouble than you can imagine but since it is about another religion you will not see any protest. It is not that religion is banned from schools but only that Christianity is banned. Another sign of the direction the country is going. We will all be under Islam rules before you know it and the government will do nothing to stop it.

Not true. The nature of the Christian religion just like the nature of the Muslim religion, or the nature of the Hindu religion can be taught, but only as historical or social entities. No teaching that Jesus is our savior or that Allah is god almighty, which, I suspect, is what you don't like about the restriction on teaching Christianity: not being able to put Christianity in a favorable light.


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[Augustus]

Probably true; however, it fails to adhere to the goal set by the title, Peaceful Islam vs. radical Fundamental Islam. The title is a sham.

I assume that it must have appeared in a broader context in class though. Looking at part of a small exercise doesn't really give the big picture so it is hard to make a judgement.

 

[metis]

Generally speaking, the SCOTUS' approach on this is either public institutions should be as inclusive as possible or be exclusive as possible. One of those test cases to the SCOTUS involved the city where I live 2/3 of the year, and it had to do with holiday displays. The decision: include any religion or secular group that wants to put up a display on public property, or tear them all down.

 

[Skwim]

I assume that it must have appeared in a broader context in class though. Looking at part of a small exercise doesn't really give the big picture so it is hard to make a judgement.

You mean you can't say that what follows under the title can't be judged with respect to the title? I'm not saying that the rest of the classroom material on Islam was as flawed as the four points, only that this particular piece of material smacks more of indoctrination rather than the promise of the title.

 

[Curious George]

Generally speaking, the SCOTUS' approach on this is either public institutions should be as inclusive as possible or be exclusive as possible. One of those test cases to the SCOTUS involved the city where I live 2/3 of the year, and it had to do with holiday displays. The decision: include any religion or secular group that wants to put up a display on public property, or tear them all down.

I don't know if I would consider the religion in school first amendment cases part of the same batch as holiday display first amendment cases.

 

[Augustus]

You mean you can't make the judgement that what follows under the title can't be judged with respect to the title? I'm not saying that the rest of the classroom material on Islam was as flawed as the four points, only that this particular piece of material smacks more of indoctrination rather than the promise of the title.

For a high school lesson though, it must have had a broader context. That's just like a comprehension check rather than the totality of it. I assume that they learned a lot more under that heading.

Only point b is a bit suspect and not something they should be teaching. I agree that is inappropriate. They shouldn't be making value judgements.

A lacks nuance, but it's understandable given the context.
C and D are accurate

I think people should learn about various religions at school, although there is a fine line that they have to tread. I'd say this material is a bit flawed but not really 'indoctrination'.

 

[Scott C.]

Was reading through another forum site and the following story was presented. Now, I'm wondering if this is a violation of separation of church and state. We know that there have be a few if not many issues brought forward dealing with public schools and religion.
Now my thoughts are if they, the school, is teaching a religion then they are in the wrong. If they are not then no foul no harm. However, as the article reads I think they, the school, is in the wrong.
Opinions?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...kids-school-after-objecting-to-islam-lessons/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/2...graduation-over-pushback-on-islam-lesson.html

There's a fine line between religious indoctrination and the teaching of religion from a cultural/political/historical point of view. The article sounds like they leaned too much towards indoctrination.

 

[metis]

I don't know if I would consider the religion in school first amendment cases part of the same batch as holiday display first amendment cases.

Actually it does, although the cases involved were separate. The common issue is religious communication in a public-owned setting, and the rulings were close to identical. Even though I wasn't in violation in the first place, these were rulings I had to abide by because of my teaching, especially in my anthropology and comparative religions courses.