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Organized Religion

spiritually inclined

spiritually inclined

Active Member
As Unitarian Universalists, have any of you ever wanted to give up on organized religion, even the progressive variety? Does it ever feel like there is just too much crap in organized religion to put up with?

What keeps you in church?

James
 
E

emiliano

Well-Known Member
spiritually inclined said:
As Unitarian Universalists, have any of you ever wanted to give up on organized religion, even the progressive variety? Does it ever feel like there is just too much crap in organized religion to put up with?

What keeps you in church?

James
Click to expand...

No, my first religious instructions were of the RCC, later in life I went for the evangelical church (an organised religion), but I am still very fond of the writing of Augustine, Aquinas, Anselm and others, I have had discussion with Unitarian Universalist and discussed their doctrines I found out that they use mutilated pieces of scripture to support their beliefs, also I notice that they have made little inroads into creating a new religion. What do you think the reasons may be? Their churches do not grow although the are amalgamated churches, I believe that churches growth is and indication of God approval and the presence of the Holy Spirit in that congregation.
 
applewuud

applewuud

Active Member
Emilano, sorry, but you're off-topic:eek:. The OP wasn't addressed to non-UUs. Wrong part of the forum for that kind of debate. BTW, churches that belong to the UUA are posting a small growth rate, but they are growing, and more than most mainline churches. If growth is evidence of God's grace, then we run the risk of chasing the most popular opinion instead of the truth.

To answer spiritually inclined's OP, I have felt like "giving up" at times, but much less so than in other churches I attended, because I'm not having to "put up with" theology that conflicts with what I truly believe. Question is, what is the "crap to put up with"? In a UU church, it tends to be the wide diversity of personalities who are part of the community...just as it is in other denominations. Is "putting up" a spiritual challenge? I think so. It's perfectly acceptable for a UU to walk away from their congregation, and many do. There is no threat of supernatural punishment for doing so, no social ostracism. Nevertheless, two things keep me active in a real, live, non-online group of people who hold face-to-face meetings to run their churches/fellowships and worship on Sundays:

1) It's a spiritual discipline to hold up your ideas and thoughts with others in a search for the truth. More deeply, when you actually are building a community at the nuts and bolts (raising funds, repairing buildings, teaching children, visiting the sick, hiring a minister, choosing music and readings for the service, etc. etc.) those ideas are put to the real-world test. It's all fine to say in the abstract that I believe in the inherent worth and dignity of all people, but can I keep believing that when I'm in conflict with other people about whether the minister is doing a good job? Or whether he/she deserves a pay raise and we should increase our pledges?

2) Not much can change in this society simply by individual thoughts and actions. I belong to and support a UU church because it's an organization that's trying to improve the world in a very deep and lasting way. The internal politics of any voluntary organization can be a lot of "crap to put up with", just as the American politics of red/blue Republicans/Democrats, or the global politics of Jew/Christian/Muslim/Hindu/etc. at times make one want to "walk away"...but we're all in this together ultimately, and as long as the environment isn't toxic or contrary to my common sense, I want to stay engaged in the dialogue starting at the congregational level.
 
Wolfscout1

Wolfscout1

Spiritual Warrior.
as one who walked away from Organised religion , Lutheran , at a young age of 15 I find that the doctrine had to many conflicts and that the people were mostly hypocrites.
for 25 years I stayed away from organised religions. Stayed eclectic as I found that most didn't adhere to what they spoke.
When I ran across UUism I found people who were accepting and who themselves, it seems to me, to be on a more spiritual path. so I am trying some what Organized again within Their philosophy of what is to be a Church. I have enjoyed it thus far. at this point in my life it's more about social/community gathering than seeking out knowledge ( though I am still a seeker it's for myself not others. )
 
madcap

madcap

Eternal Optimist
I value the community aspect of it. If it weren't for that, I'd probably have little use for it. Being part of a congregation whose members care for and respect each other is what it's all about.

Some congregations reflect this better than others. I attended a UU church for awhile in a previous city, and while they paid lip service to welcoming visitors, it really felt like no one in that congregation was particularly interested in my presence. So I stopped going.
 
Luminous

Luminous

non-existential luminary
There should not be a UU religious organization, there should be an agnostic organization.(i would like it this way because i think its not O.K. for a person to beleive what ever with out atleast realizing that they could be wrong in their opinion. UU kinda says do as you please and it doesn't matter if it is true.) EH, what would i know. nevermind.
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Luminous said:
There should not be a UU religious organization, there should be an agnostic organization.(i would like it this way because i think its not O.K. for a person to beleive what ever with out atleast realizing that they could be wrong in their opinion. UU kinda says do as you please and it doesn't matter if it is true.) EH, what would i know. nevermind.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but you have no idea what UU is or is about and you have no right to come to the UU forum and tell us we shouldn't exist. I would be happy to enlighten you on our beliefs and our religion, but only if you're going to be a bit more respectful.
 
Luminous

Luminous

non-existential luminary
I am going to keep asking my questions here. so how do you believe the universe was created?
 
Luminous

Luminous

non-existential luminary
No, I don't want to join any way of life church just yet. But thank you for the 100 facts, i understand UU a bit better now.
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Luminous said:
No, I don't want to join any way of life church just yet. But thank you for the 100 facts, i understand UU a bit better now.
Click to expand...
OK... I don't think you need to join any church or religion unless you feel the need to do so. And UU certainly isn't for everyone, although we do welcome all. :chalice:
 
lilithu

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Luminous said:
There should not be a UU religious organization, there should be an agnostic organization.(i would like it this way because i think its not O.K. for a person to beleive what ever with out atleast realizing that they could be wrong in their opinion.
Click to expand...
Would that include the people who believe that everyone should at least realize that they could be wrong in their opinion? :p

I think that most UUs are agnostic, whether we are theist or nontheist. Agnosticism is an epistemological stance, not a theological stance. Most UUs, the vast majority of UUs, recognize they would be wrong in their theological stances... even as we continue to have them.

I don't really see the point of an "agnostic organization," but suit yourself. And I don't see why an "agnostic organization" should replace Unitarian Universalism.


Luminous said:
UU kinda says do as you please and it doesn't matter if it is true.)
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I agree with Green Gaia; you don't really know what UU is about (tho you presume to critique it), because that most definitely is NOT true.
 
madcap

madcap

Eternal Optimist
I think that most UUs are agnostic, whether we are theist or nontheist. Agnosticism is an epistemological stance, not a theological stance.
Click to expand...

I completely agree, although I just participated in a truncated version of a "Creating your own theology" course that, among other things, listed Agnosticism as an independent system of belief about God. Which is crap. Too often people confuse "I don't know which path is correct or where the path leads" with "I can't decide which path to take." Including, apparently, some UUs.

Most UUs, the vast majority of UUs, recognize they would be wrong in their theological stances... even as we continue to have them.
Click to expand...

I think you mean "recognize that they could be wrong..." In order to take a theological stance, you have to have some inclination that it at least might be right...don't you?
 
lilithu

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
madcap said:
I completely agree, although I just participated in a truncated version of a "Creating your own theology" course that, among other things, listed Agnosticism as an independent system of belief about God. Which is crap. Too often people confuse "I don't know which path is correct or where the path leads" with "I can't decide which path to take." Including, apparently, some UUs.
Click to expand...
Yup. :yes:


madcap said:
I think you mean "recognize that they could be wrong..." In order to take a theological stance, you have to have some inclination that it at least might be right...don't you?
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Sorry, yes, that was definitely a typo. :p

Altho it does remind me of a joke that my preacher told from the pulpit: he said that he's found that UUs are the most open-minded people he knows.... until you try to convince them of something. :p
 
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