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Original Sin

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
I am interested to hear what Christians have to say about this. Does it really seem fair to you guys that you're being blamed still for the sins of Adam and Eve? Also, what about you Christians who take the bible figuratively rather than literally--aka, you believe the story of Genesis to be basically fiction? How can you believe in original sin when you think the whole origination of it's idea is simply some 'just so' story?
 
I am an LCMS member so I interpret the Bible literally. Original sin is sin that is passed down through the human race and we can never erase it. Different Christian denominations that don't take the Bible literally would refute original sin as being false.
 

true blood

Active Member
To try and state it in simple terms I believe original sin is broken fellowship with God. (I'm not positive what "original sin" means , note)

Also I don't "label" myself a "christian" or partake to "religion" nor am I a "member" of any "denomination or sect".
 
That is somewhat the Catholic belief of it. It would be their belief that all sins are the "breaking of relationships." So, in their view, original sin is the breaking of our relationship with God. LCMS belief views original sin as tainting us from birth, but is washed away by our Baptism in Jesus Christ. Furthermore, Christ's death on the cross also atones for not only original sin, but for all our sins.
 
What I'm curious about is why God didn't create 'sinless' humans. The fact that God had to have a flood to wash away his first try does not help me in believing that God is all-powerful. Nor does it help me in believing that he is loving either. If my father thought I was a screw-up, and drowned me, I don't think I could continue loving him. I suppose the reason I don't follow religion is because of little contradictions like the ones I've stated previously. I just can't base my entire belief system on a faith that has so many loopholes. I'm truly interested in what others think about this. The original sin, to me, is a perfect discreditation of the entire Christian faith.
 
Ceridwen, Original sin comes from first man. Is it fair for us to be held accountable? If we never sinned, then no it would not be fair, but like DNA we inherit the need to sin against God. Is it fair that I inherited brown eyes instead of the gorgeous baby blues my hubby has, I don't think so but I inherited them. God created perfect man with no diseases and no problems with his psyche. Adam, as the Bible names him, messed it up for all of us but we really cant fault him when we really just keep adding fuel to the fire. Look at what we have done to the planet in the last 100 years.
 

Ardhanariswar

I'm back!
ya but there are a lot of *good* and moral people out there. somehow media always talks about the bad and we seem forever engulfed in a parade of disturbing events until our mind cannot handle it and is brainwashed! argh!
 

Corban

Member
God did create sinless children. when we are born in this life we are free from sin. we will only be held accountable for our sins not for anyone else including Adam. We do not inherit sin, but the consequence of Adam's sin is present in the world. Adam sinned and therefore was cast out of the garden and out of the presence of God. This life is our time to prepare to meet God. Because we did not sin to be cast out of God's presence everyone will be brought back into His presence thus Adam's effect of sin, that passed upon us all withought our effort, will be taken from us withought our effort. We will all be brought back into His presence, but once there, when the affects of Adams sin are removed God will look at us and our lives and our sins, then we will be judged and then will determine if we can remain there not because of Adam but because of our own actions. Adam did not pass to us sin, we enter this world pure and clean, Adam only passed to us the abilit to sin. When a child is near his parent the parent watches closeley and the child must behave. when the child is away from the parent they must decide for themselves to behave or not. Adam took us away from God, so that we could be tested away from God, on our own merits, if we will follow or not.
 
It is important not to forget that morality was invented by humans. A human who grows up in a society that practices female circumcision or child labor has no problem believing these actions are totally moral. One's morals and values are almost always copied from their invironmental suroundings. Where else do you think religious beliefs come from.

I believe the idea of original sin is deeply rooted in control. If I practiced a religion, I would refuse to believe that I had been born 'sinning.' What about all these innocent children that pro-lifers vouch for all the time. If everyone is born a sinner, then fetuses can not be innocent; true? This is beside the point. The story of Adam and Eve, a loophole in itself, shows us that the devil told Eve to tell Adam to sin, respectively. If my neighbor steals my other neighbor's lawn sprinkler, am I responsible for the same sin? I doubt it. Humans can not be held responsible for the sins of one. My point is that original sin is another tactic to keep hardworking individuals worried and praying. If I could give one message to followers of original sin, it would be: "Come up with your own definition of sin, and stick to it. If you are going to have beliefs, make sure they are worth beliving in. Do your research, and do not believe in something because an unreliable source told you to."
 

Lightkeeper

Well-Known Member
I think original sin refers to the split from God in the Garden. I don't believe we are born sinners or have inherited sin. I do believe that we can become separated off from the Divine within us and that we can find our way back to unity.
 

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
LCMS Sprecher,

You say that you think humans are tainted with sin from birth, but where is the logic in that? What has a little baby done that could be warranted as sin?

Martha Dodge,

Perhaps we do inherit the need to sin against god, but until we act upon that need, we are sinless. Original sin is sin that we are saddled with at birth, before we even have a chance to do anything. Are you saying that god gives us original sin because he just figures we won't be sinless? He's not giving his people even a chance to be good!

LeaderNotFollower, good points!
 

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
true blood,

Sin doesn't kill us. In fact, Billy Joel would have us believe that it keeps us alive longer. We grow old and die because of our natural biology.

Also, you speak of growing old and dying as purely negative aspects of human life, but why does it have to be that way? Sure, the problems which arise in elderly people, both physical and mental, are no picnic...then again, the problems of your teenage years weren't either, were they? As far as dying goes, don't you *want* to die so you can live in eternal bliss in heaven? Certainly due to that you cannot consider death to be a totally negative occurance.
 

true blood

Active Member
Well my belief is sin = death and I'm at rest with my belief regardless what Billy Joel or anyone else has to say.

"don't you *want* to die so you can live in eternal bliss in heaven?"
sorta...I've already "died" [past tense] and now have eternal life through Jesus Christ.


"We grow old and die because of our natural biology."
Which is a result of Adam's "orginal sin"
 
Original sin stems from the sin of Adam and Eve in the garden. Again, you have to recognize that humans are inherently sinful and we cannot achieve our own salvation. Humans were created perfect until the sin of Adam and Eve corrupted our race. In our post-enlightenment society, this is hard to grasp. As far as unborn children, Rev. Dr. Martin Luther would say that "God is merciful."
 

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
LCMS,

I'm not necessarily talking about unborn babies here. I'm talking about babies who are actually born and alive. How is it fair that an innocent little baby could be called 'inherently sinful'? What, exactly, has the little baby done to deserve such a lable? It is too young to even think bad thoughts, let alone actually *do* something bad.

You say we are inherently sinful because we have been tainted by Adam and Eve, but what does that mean? What about us is 'tainted'? Do we have bad blood now? Is everyone born with 'sin cells' floating around inside of their bodies?

You know what I say? If god wanted us to all be so good and sinless, why didn't he 'untaint' us? It's not like it would be hard, he *is* all-powerful...is he not?
 

quick

Member
Perhaps this will help you, from the Wesminster Confession of Faith, which seeks to explain Biblical precepts:

Westminster Confession of Faith

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Chapter VI: Of the Fall of Man, of Sin and of the Punishment Thereof

Our first parents being seduced by the subtlety and temptation of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory.

By this sin they fell from their original righteousness, and communion with God, and so became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body.

They being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed, and the same death in sin and corrupted nature, conveyed to all their posterity, descending from them by ordinary generation.

From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indiposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions.

This corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated: and although it be through Christ pardoned and mortified, yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin.

Every sin, both original and actual, being a transgression of the righteous law of God, and contrary thereunto, doth, in its own nature, bring guilt upon the sinner, whereby he is bound over to the wrath of God, and curse of the law, and so made subject to death, with all miseries spiritual, temporal, and eternal.

Westminster Confession of Faith

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Chapter VII: Of God's Covenant with Man
The distance between God and the creature is so great, that although reasonable creatures do owe obedience unto him as their Creator, yet they could never have any fruition of him as their blessedness and reward, but by some voluntary condescension on God's part, which he hath been pleased to express by way of covenant.

The first covenant made with man was a covenant of works, wherein life was promised to Adam, and in him to his posterity, upon condition of perfect and personal obedience.

Man by his fall having made himself uncapable of life by that covenant, the Lord was pleased to make a second, commonly called the Covenant of Grace: whereby he freely offereth unto sinners life and salvation by Jesus Christ, requiring of them faith in him, that they may be saved; and promising to give unto all those that are ordained unto life his Holy Spirit to make them willing and able to believe.

This covenant of grace is frequently set forth in Scripture by the name of a Testament, in reference to the death of Jesus Christ the testator, and to the everlasting inheritance, with all things belonging to it, therein bequeathed.

This covenant was differently administered in the time of the law, and in the time of the gospel: under the law it was administered by promises, prophecies, sacrifices, circumcision, the paschal lamb, and other types and ordinances delivered to the people of the Jews, all foresignifying Christ to come, which were for that time sufficient and efficacious, through the operation of the Spirit, to instruct and build up the elect in faith in the promised Messiah, by whom they had full remission of sins, and eternal salvation; and is called the Old Testament.

Under the gospel, when Christ the substance was exhibited, the ordinances in which this covenant is dispensed are the preaching of the Word, and the administration of the sacraments of Baptism and the Lord's Supper, which, though fewer in number, and administered with more simplicity and less outward glory, yet in them it is held forth in more fullness, evidence, and spiritual efficacy, to all nations, both Jews and Gentiles; and is called the New Testament. There are not therefore two covenants of grace differing in substance, but one and the same under various dispensations.
 

true blood

Active Member
He does untaint us. Have you even read the Bible? If so, what were you reading comprehension scores in high school?
 
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