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Orphanage or gay parents

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
And?

I am sorry, but I just do not understand the need to constantly be trying to correct people.
Is not your belief in your beliefs strong enough to withstand the ignorance of others?

maybe the following question will make more sense?

why do homosexuals defend homosexuality if some priest makes some comments against homosexuality? why do people who oppose homosexuality get labeled 'homophobic'

and it's not about correct people, it's about defending ones honor, beliefs and freedom to do what they want.
 

nnmartin

Well-Known Member
You know them? they probably wouldn´t even have the balls to approach the girl, becaus they would be sure they won´t be loved in return. No one else has loved them, what would the girl see in them anyways?

love has got very little to do with it here.

a young boy is attracted to girls and wants to impress them - but it's not love.

it's a boyhood awakening of the senses , menatally and physically.

if the boy has seen his two male parents as a couple then he will view girls in a strange light and may well hold back from normal behaviour. I'm not just talking about kissing girls etc.. but more important issues such as getting ahead with work and social issues.

About lesbians promoting feminist agendas that´s so ridiculously brute thing to say I don´t know how to even begin making you understand that if you don´t get it by simply revising the thought once more.
lesbians are a slightly different propostion here but I believe many of them are actually man haters.

l belive it to be a given that most lesbians use didos as a form of gratification.

Now why would they use a substitute for the real thing it they didn't really want it?

it's because , they want the natural form of intercourse but without the strings and emotion attached to it.

this sends out a wave of negativity to the child and manifests in a form of anti-man thought.

this will likely turn a young boy semi-asexual for a period a young girl will become repressed.
 
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McBell

Unbound
maybe the following question will make more sense?

why do homosexuals defend homosexuality if some priest makes some comments against homosexuality? why do people who oppose homosexuality get labeled 'homophobic'

and it's not about correct people, it's about defending ones honor, beliefs and freedom to do what they want.
In some cases homosexuals are trying to right a wrong. I. E. the ban on same sex marriage.
Other cases I have no idea and in fact would be asking them the same as I am asking you.


Is your honour so fragile that you must defend it against such ignorance?
Why go to such lengths and worry over another persons strawmen?
 

McBell

Unbound
love has got very little to with it here.

a young boy is attracted to girls and wants to impress them - but it's not love.

it's a boyhood awakening of the senses , menatally and physically.

if the boy has seen his two male parents as a couple then he will view girls in a strange light and may well hold back from normal behaviour. I'm not just talking about kissing girls etc.. but more important issues such as getting ahead with work and social issues.
Make up your mind.
Either the boy is attracted to girls or he isn't.
having a same sex couple has parents has no bearing on it.

And as far as the work and social stuff you toss in as a side note, there would not be the problems if there weren't as many people like you making a big to do over such nonsense.

lesbians are a slightly different propostion here but I believe many of them are actually man haters.

l belive it to be a given that most lesbians use didos as a form of gratification.

Now why would they use a substitute for the real thing it they didn't really want it?

it's because , they want the natural form of intercourse but without the strings and emotion attached to it.

this sends out a wave of negativity to the child and manifests in a form of anti-man thought.

this will likely turn a young boy semi-asexual for a period a young girl will become repressed.
and once again you show that your ignorance on the topic is far greater than your knowledge.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
love has got very little to with it here.

a young boy is attracted to girls and wants to impress them - but it's not love.

it's a boyhood awakening of the senses , menatally and physically.

if the boy has seen his two male parents as a couple then he will view girls in a strange light and may well hold back from normal behaviour. I'm not just talking about kissing girls etc.. but more important issues such as getting ahead with work and social issues.


Pretty much all of waht you said is wrong actually (sometmes I just don´t know how you do it :confused: )

for starters, love is needed for almost anything socialy speaking. If you never felt love, chances are you haveno self confidence. If you have no self confidence, chances are you aren´t even going to try to get the female´s attention cause you won´t expect them to return the favour in a million years. Thats for orphanage.

For gay parents: who told you homosexual men don´t know whow to approach women? many of them have a LOT of female friends. If the boy asks the parents they could very well give him good tips. If not, then the friends the boy can have (because he has self esteem thanks to him feeling loved while growing up) can teach him how to approach girls. If not, he just watches and learns from others in his high school. All the social skills needed pretty much depend on him having had positive interactions with people befor e(of any sex or kind) so again he is much better of having had homosexual male parents that none at all.

To conclude: Love has everything to do with all of it.

lesbians are a slightly different propostion here but I believe many of them are actually man haters.

This false assumption caused much of the train-wreck I shiver to think you call rational thinking that you displayed following that so ridiculous sentence.
 

nnmartin

Well-Known Member
To conclude: Love has everything to do with all of it.

now that would be a fine statement to make on a long-haired hippy commune in the 60's but in today's society it is just pie in the sky pinko hogwash.

since when did love have anything to do with a one-night stand or quick rut behind the bike sheds?

since when did love make someone want to impress the girls at school by boyish behaviour - it's not love here but sexaul posturing.

a clear difference.

too much love of the soft, pc, liberal idealistic kind turns one into some kind of lame duck.

It may sound good in the humanist class but is of much less value out in the real word.

to conclude: it's all about natural instincts and law of the jungle.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Muslims are a minority in their belief that adultery is immoral

That isn't true. Christians, Hindus, Sikh, Baha'i etc. all consider adultery to be wrong. There are also non-religious people who hold this principle.
Unfortunately, following a religion doesn't always stop people committing certain sins..
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
Whats better for a child to grow in?

In an orphanage, or in a gay parents family aproved by a competent social worker for meeting the economical, emotional and psychological requirements to have the child ?

It is better that children grow up in a home where people fear GOD...

regardless of sexual preference, Proverbs 22:6 says:

"Start children off on the way they should go,
and even when they are old they will not turn from it."
 

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: those who think that a child is better off in an orphanage than with gay parents has never had to go through that kind of trauma. Live in an orphanage, and then you'll be saying the opposite.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: those who think that a child is better off in an orphanage than with gay parents has never had to go through that kind of trauma. Live in an orphanage, and then you'll be saying the opposite.

what about the opposite to what you say? does your statement have a 'vice versa' thing to it?
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
That isn't true. Christians, Hindus, Sikh, Baha'i etc. all consider adultery to be wrong. There are also non-religious people who hold this principle.
Unfortunately, following a religion doesn't always stop people committing certain sins..

it seems i have to agree, i made a hasty example without thinking about it properly, i do know for certain that christianity forbids it also, but it didn't cross my mind at the time and i was thinking about the actions of some christians instead of the teachings of the faith, the same could be said about islam if it was based on the actions of some followers who do commit adultery. i didn't know that Hinduism and Sikhhism view adultery in the same way, thats interesting.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
it seems i have to agree, i made a hasty example without thinking about it properly, i do know for certain that christianity forbids it also, but it didn't cross my mind at the time and i was thinking about the actions of some christians instead of the teachings of the faith, the same could be said about islam if it was based on the actions of some followers who do commit adultery. i didn't know that Hinduism and Sikhhism view adultery in the same way, thats interesting.

You will find that when it comes to teachings about morality there are many similarities between these religions. The main differences lie in the rituals and concepts about the nature of God. Sikhism seems like it is a fusion of Hinduism and Islam. But I haven't studied it thoroughly.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
You will find that when it comes to teachings about morality there are many similarities between these religions. The main differences lie in the rituals and concepts about the nature of God. Sikhism seems like it is a fusion of Hinduism and Islam. But I haven't studied it thoroughly.

thank you for the information, this was something i had no idea about.
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: those who think that a child is better off in an orphanage than with gay parents has never had to go through that kind of trauma. Live in an orphanage, and then you'll be saying the opposite.
There are so many horror stories surrounding orphanages...where to begin? I suppose that, especially under stressful conditions, when there is a sudden increase in the number of orphans, an orphanage may be the only option other than certain death of the child. But, and orphanage is by its very nature, a cold, institutional and impersonal system for a child to have to grow up in. Maybe someone can come up with some stats to show that orphanages do an effective job at parenting orphaned children. It would be surprise to me.

So, why wouldn't the default assumption be that a gay couple would at least be better than putting a child into an orphanage? Probably because there are fears that a child would be sexually molested by gay men, in particular....I'm not sure what the average opinion is on lesbians in this situation....or there are so many fundamentalist organizations claiming that gays "recruit" children or young adults into their gay lifestyle. The presumption is that nobody can be born that way, and they choose to be homosexuals...for some crazy reason, and can be deconverted from the gay life if they accept Jesus or some alternative religious claptrap.

Whatever, since I am not a conservative, I like to seek out what the real evidence is regarding such claims, rather than just make up my own truth, and see what I can scrape together to fit the narrative.

A quick search online led me to one of my favourite places to search for information on a subject....the About website...and the "About Adoption/Foster Care" section has this on the subject of gay adoption:Gay Adoption Basics 6 Gay Adoption Basics to Know
By Carrie Craft, About.com Guide


4. The Fears Around Gay Adoption & Gay Parenting

Many studies have been done on same sex couples in order to see how children in these unions are being raised. The studies are often biased based on who has done the research. Gay and lesbian groups show positive results, while religious or conservative groups show negative. Many of the concerns are centered around understanding sexual orientation and if children will develop problems from having gay parents. But research has not found a single study showing that children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect. Still there are other concerns:
Will Children Raised by Gay Parents Become Gay?


There have been various studies on this subject and various researchers have been asked this very question. But according to the odds of a child becoming homosexual is about the same as the odds of a child becoming heterosexual - regardless of the sexual orientation of the parents.
SOURCE:
Overview of Lesbian and Gay Parenting, Adoption and Foster Care - April 6, 1999 Fact Sheet - ACLU

I figure that this study, by showing there is no difference in the odds of a child turning out gay whether they have gay or heterosexual adoptive parents, not only puts to rest any fear that gay adoptive parents will turn children gay, it also adds more evidence to the already overwhelming case that sexual orientation is grounded in very physical factors involved in brain development, and not something that people choose to do, like learning how to drive a car.
Will Children be Molested by a Homosexual Parent?


Studies show that a large portion of child abuse occurs at the hand of a heterosexual man.
Another study followed 269 cases of child sexual abuse. Only 2 of the perpetrators were gay or lesbian.
74% of the perpetrators were or had been in a heterosexual relationship with the boy's mother or another female relative.
"The study concluded that 'a child's risk of being molested by his or her relative's heterosexual partner is over 100 times greater than by someone who might be identifiable as being homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual.'"
SOURCE:
Overview of Lesbian and Gay Parenting, Adoption and Foster Care - April 6, 1999 Fact Sheet - ACLU

Well, I'm convinced! It appears to me, from the evidence, that not only does the thread question have no merit, but it's even possible from the preliminary evidence that gay adoptive parents may be superior to the average straight couples adopting children! Of course, the wonderful results so far may be in part due to the fact that gay adoption is still a very new phenomena....like gay marriage....and the most exemplary, and most highly motivated gay couples may be at the front of the line, seeking to adopt children right now. The real test for how well they do as parents, may come in time after the novelty wears off. But it's still a no-brainer that they will continue to be far superior to putting children into orphanages!
 

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
There are so many horror stories surrounding orphanages...where to begin? I suppose that, especially under stressful conditions, when there is a sudden increase in the number of orphans, an orphanage may be the only option other than certain death of the child. But, and orphanage is by its very nature, a cold, institutional and impersonal system for a child to have to grow up in. Maybe someone can come up with some stats to show that orphanages do an effective job at parenting orphaned children. It would be surprise to me.

So, why wouldn't the default assumption be that a gay couple would at least be better than putting a child into an orphanage? Probably because there are fears that a child would be sexually molested by gay men, in particular....I'm not sure what the average opinion is on lesbians in this situation....or there are so many fundamentalist organizations claiming that gays "recruit" children or young adults into their gay lifestyle. The presumption is that nobody can be born that way, and they choose to be homosexuals...for some crazy reason, and can be deconverted from the gay life if they accept Jesus or some alternative religious claptrap.

Whatever, since I am not a conservative, I like to seek out what the real evidence is regarding such claims, rather than just make up my own truth, and see what I can scrape together to fit the narrative.

A quick search online led me to one of my favourite places to search for information on a subject....the About website...and the "About Adoption/Foster Care" section has this on the subject of gay adoption:Gay Adoption Basics 6 Gay Adoption Basics to Know
By Carrie Craft, About.com Guide


4. The Fears Around Gay Adoption & Gay Parenting

Many studies have been done on same sex couples in order to see how children in these unions are being raised. The studies are often biased based on who has done the research. Gay and lesbian groups show positive results, while religious or conservative groups show negative. Many of the concerns are centered around understanding sexual orientation and if children will develop problems from having gay parents. But research has not found a single study showing that children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect. Still there are other concerns:
Will Children Raised by Gay Parents Become Gay?


There have been various studies on this subject and various researchers have been asked this very question. But according to the odds of a child becoming homosexual is about the same as the odds of a child becoming heterosexual - regardless of the sexual orientation of the parents.
SOURCE:
Overview of Lesbian and Gay Parenting, Adoption and Foster Care - April 6, 1999 Fact Sheet - ACLU

I figure that this study, by showing there is no difference in the odds of a child turning out gay whether they have gay or heterosexual adoptive parents, not only puts to rest any fear that gay adoptive parents will turn children gay, it also adds more evidence to the already overwhelming case that sexual orientation is grounded in very physical factors involved in brain development, and not something that people choose to do, like learning how to drive a car.
Will Children be Molested by a Homosexual Parent?


Studies show that a large portion of child abuse occurs at the hand of a heterosexual man.
Another study followed 269 cases of child sexual abuse. Only 2 of the perpetrators were gay or lesbian.
74% of the perpetrators were or had been in a heterosexual relationship with the boy's mother or another female relative.
"The study concluded that 'a child's risk of being molested by his or her relative's heterosexual partner is over 100 times greater than by someone who might be identifiable as being homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual.'"
SOURCE:
Overview of Lesbian and Gay Parenting, Adoption and Foster Care - April 6, 1999 Fact Sheet - ACLU

Well, I'm convinced! It appears to me, from the evidence, that not only does the thread question have no merit, but it's even possible from the preliminary evidence that gay adoptive parents may be superior to the average straight couples adopting children! Of course, the wonderful results so far may be in part due to the fact that gay adoption is still a very new phenomena....like gay marriage....and the most exemplary, and most highly motivated gay couples may be at the front of the line, seeking to adopt children right now. The real test for how well they do as parents, may come in time after the novelty wears off. But it's still a no-brainer that they will continue to be far superior to putting children into orphanages!

:clap
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Whats better for a child to grow in?

In an orphanage, or in a gay parents family aproved by a competent social worker for meeting the economical, emotional and psychological requirements to have the child ?

Naturally, I would favor a loving two-parent household for a child, whether it's same-sex or heterosexual over an orphanage. But, I don't necessarily like the negative stigma that's attached to the word "orphanage" because in certain circumstances, this is reality and an orphanage can provide the aformentioned, not that I'm suggesting that they always do.

Only the grown adult can determine "parental" success.
 

Neo-Logic

Reality Checker
Whats better for a child to grow in?

I don't think the essential question is necessarily the one that ends with me having to choose between abusive orphanage vs. a utopian homosexual couple's home where kids always grow up to be superstars. If we seriously wanted to approach the question of what's really in the interest of the child, then we have to be able to do away with all presumptions and prejudices and ask the simple question of what makes a great parent?

I'm a huge believer that people only become good or great at something when they want to be. So under that principle, any couple--not just the gays but also regular couples with fertility issues, etc-- who have enough desire to become parents that they're willing jump through all the hoops and costs of the adoption process are definitely IN.

I also believe that the only way to make people do something is to make them want to do it. So under that principle, orphanages and even group-homes are in. Yes, the people who run those places receive money from the government for each kid they raise and many use this as a crux to denounce their legitimacy, but is that really a bad thing? I do not think we can discount these places just as much as we cannot discount the homes of gay couples. Despite the horror stories, it would be disingenuous for anyone to doubt that there are great foster homes ran by caring people just as there gay couples who would make great parents despite what the religious right-wing might have us believe.

So maybe what's great for the kids is less about stereotyping either side and instead a holistic approach. Let's streamline the adoption process to be less red-tape and bureaucratic and less-costly for parents of any sexual orientation. Make it so it's easier and less costly for couples to adopt older kids already in the foster system instead of new-borns or toddlers so the older kids also get the benefits of a great home with more attention. Let's, at the same time, increase oversight on group-homes and foster homes and orphanages to prevent abuse and horrors long foretold.
 
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