• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Orthodox Christianity Hinges on Original Sin...

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
What reason would we really have to accept Christianity without original sin? Orthodox Christianity's central tenant is that God came to die to free us from the curse of original sin.

This puts forth original sin as a kind of ailment or sickness that Christianity claims to hold the cure for.

What if you don't believe in the illness though? Is original sin somehow demonstrable within reality?

What other reason would there be to believe? If you're not demonstrably ill why accept a cure for it? Its snake oil isn't it?
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
What reason would we really have to accept Christianity without original sin? Orthodox Christianity's central tenant is that God came to die to free us from the curse of original sin.

This puts forth original sin as a kind of ailment or sickness that Christianity claims to hold the cure for.

What if you don't believe in the illness though? Is original sin somehow demonstrable within reality?

What other reason would there be to believe? If you're not demonstrably ill why accept a cure for it? Its snake oil isn't it?

Even further, human evolution makes nonsense of the Adam and Eve story that the notion of original sin is based on.

I suspect that this is the source of the opposition to evolution.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Paul never mentions original sin. Neither did the Gospel writers. Original sin is a later creation, one that not even all Christians agree on. With that said, I think your basic premise misses.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
What reason would we really have to accept Christianity without original sin? Orthodox Christianity's central tenant is that God came to die to free us from the curse of original sin.

This puts forth original sin as a kind of ailment or sickness that Christianity claims to hold the cure for.

What if you don't believe in the illness though? Is original sin somehow demonstrable within reality?

What other reason would there be to believe? If you're not demonstrably ill why accept a cure for it? Its snake oil isn't it?


I think you nailed it pretty well.

This is why traditional Christianity is losing members among the more educated and the create-your-own belief members are gaining. People want Jesus' message of love without dogma that offends logic.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Paul never mentions original sin.
Not directly, but would you not say that Romans and 1 Corinthians seem to point towards it?

edit:
To address the OP
What reason would we really have to accept Christianity without original sin?
Our own personal sins.

Is original sin somehow demonstrable within reality?
I'd say so. Every person is flawed and no one is perfect, this leads to people committing sins. That is the essence of original sin and I'd say that is demonstrated almost daily.
 
Last edited:

jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
What reason would we really have to accept Christianity without original sin? Orthodox Christianity's central tenant is that God came to die to free us from the curse of original sin.

This puts forth original sin as a kind of ailment or sickness that Christianity claims to hold the cure for.

What if you don't believe in the illness though? Is original sin somehow demonstrable within reality?

What other reason would there be to believe? If you're not demonstrably ill why accept a cure for it? Its snake oil isn't it?

We are just how God intended us to be, no more, no less. We are one of many animals. There are gonna by sheer chance alone be thousands if not millions of planets with intelligent life dominating the other creatures in terms of altering their environments.

Humans are on the planet earth, just one of many planets that are huge hives of life. to Satan, it is another animal lifeform made in his image, that reached a new level of becoming via overcoming the struggles via ingenuity and evolutionary progression.

As well in our personal lives, we grow to become stronger and better in the same way. There is no sin, only our nature that God/Satan made us with, from which we first embrace, then we refine and self-actualize to become a greater form of ourselves.

Original sin from the Christian ideal, is nothing but saying that their nature is bad, when in fact it is neutral as is Satan. Without sin, there is no need for Jesus, and we can be good and loving from our hearts. Love from the heart instead of threats of hellfire is more genuine love by any honest measure.

If Christians need to guilt everyone into being fundamentally flawed, "sinful", then no wonder we suffer from so many mental ailments in society. I'll take Satan over that any-day, that loves me for what I am, as I realize that to see Satan, is to know that I am not flawed, but ultimately a neutral being that can feel both love and hate, and create and destroy, and that there is nothing wrong with that; that is how Satan intended me.
 

GabrielWithoutWings

Well-Known Member
What reason would we really have to accept Christianity without original sin? Orthodox Christianity's central tenant is that God came to die to free us from the curse of original sin.

This puts forth original sin as a kind of ailment or sickness that Christianity claims to hold the cure for.

What if you don't believe in the illness though? Is original sin somehow demonstrable within reality?

What other reason would there be to believe? If you're not demonstrably ill why accept a cure for it? Its snake oil isn't it?

Do you mean orthodox Christianity or Orthodox Christianity?

Eastern Orthodoxy has ancestral sin rather than Original Sin.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
I mean what we in the west call mainstream Christianity. Catholic and High Protestant :)

How do the Eastern Orthodox define ancestral sin?
 

GabrielWithoutWings

Well-Known Member
I mean what we in the west call mainstream Christianity. Catholic and High Protestant :)

How do the Eastern Orthodox define ancestral sin?

The result of ancestral sin is death. We receive the results of ancestral sin through our parents - we will grow old and die. There is no active state of sin at birth in Orthodoxy the way there is in Western Christianity.

The goal in Orthodoxy is to return to the pre-Fall state which is represented by Christ's Transfiguration. They call this process Theosis.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Mainstream Christianity does go by the premise that humans are in need of saving. Original sins is one of the ways to explain why humans are corrupt in the first place. It goes by the notion that only God can save us from ourselves, totally ignoring the fact that humans are in gods image in the first place.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Mainstream Christianity does go by the premise that humans are in need of saving. Original sins is one of the ways to explain why humans are corrupt in the first place. It goes by the notion that only God can save us from ourselves, totally ignoring the fact that humans are in gods image in the first place.

I think leaders like Augustine used it because they knew it was an effective sales pitch. The best way to sell something is to convince someone they need it.
 

Rocky S

Christian Goth
What reason would we really have to accept Christianity without original sin? Orthodox Christianity's central tenant is that God came to die to free us from the curse of original sin.

This puts forth original sin as a kind of ailment or sickness that Christianity claims to hold the cure for.

What if you don't believe in the illness though?
If a doctor told you that you had disease, does not believing in that make it go away? Sorry for the rhetorical question but there is a point to that..
Is original sin somehow demonstrable within reality? What other reason would there be to believe? If you're not demonstrably ill why accept a cure for it?
OK lets look at this logically, not all disease is outwardly visible at first, but overtime manifests. Sin is like this, just look at society as a whole. The fallen world that we live in is very evident . Every thing in our reality shows original sin or the curse of sin, Death, disease,murder,pedophile,rape,genocides,war and these are extreme cases of course. We all are lead by original sin, the sin nature compels us. Even look at children(I have 4 year old and a 3 year old) you do not have to teach a child to be bad it just comes natural. All of this is because of the fallen cursed world that we live in. These are just the outward manifestations of original sin. And all this will not be done away with until after the kingdom age. I believe Jesus is the only answer to all of this, and even the sins that we commit individually...
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
If a doctor told you that you had disease, does not believing in that make it go away? Sorry for the rhetorical question but there is a point to that.. OK lets look at this logically, not all disease is outwardly visible at first, but overtime manifests. Sin is like this, just look at society as a whole. The fallen world that we live in is very evident . Every thing in our reality shows original sin or the curse of sin, Death, disease,murder,pedophile,rape,genocides,war and these are extreme cases of course. We all are lead by original sin, the sin nature compels us. Even look at children(I have 4 year old and a 3 year old) you do not have to teach a child to be bad it just comes natural. All of this is because of the fallen cursed world that we live in. These are just the outward manifestations of original sin. And all this will not be done away with until after the kingdom age. I believe Jesus is the only answer to all of this, and even the sins that we commit individually...
A lot of how we behave is encoded in our DNA but you could have twins and one be bad and one be good. How much is inborn and how much can be changed is debatable but one thing is certain is that we are all born different and some are born evil as well as good.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
. . . totally ignoring the fact that humans are in gods image in the first place.

As well as totally ignoring the fact that the Jewish scriptures--which Christians claim to accept--explicitly REJECT inheritance of sin in Ezekiel 18:14-20!

Peace,

Bruce
 
Even further, human evolution makes nonsense of the Adam and Eve story that the notion of original sin is based on.

I suspect that this is the source of the opposition to evolution.

Personally I believe that one of the main differences that separates humans from other animals is the possession of an eternal spirit. There most likely were human-like animals prior to "Adam" and "Eve", whose bones would appear nearly identical to modern humans, but they couldn't be called God's sons and daughters. At the appropriate moment God endowed an eternal spirit to one male and one female, as the true origin of the human race. Possessing spirits stamped them in the image of God, but also gave them moral responsibility.
 


As well as totally ignoring the fact that the Jewish scriptures--which Christians claim to accept--explicitly REJECT inheritance of sin in Ezekiel 18:14-20!

Peace,

Bruce

Scriptures such as above have to balanced against others such as Exodus 20:5-6: "For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments."

The scriptures in Ezekial emphasize the ability of the children to turn away from the sins of the parents, and God will bless them accordingly. If it is possible to turn away from sins, which is the most important point, perhaps it could be considered that the sins of the parents place an extra weight on their children that makes that turning away more difficult, in view of Exodus 20 and other similar passages.
 
Top