Outside of Consciousness or Within Consciousness? (Mysticism DIR)

[Sunstone]

Does the mystical experience take place outside of consciousness or within consciousness?

I am leaving the terms here undefined on purpose so that you can define them according to your own understanding of what they mean.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Since my understanding of the Absolute (Brahman) is, by definition, consciousness in its purest form, based on my experience, the mystical experience is an experience of consciousness in its purest form. As best as I can describe it, it is an experience from the perception outside the mind, possibly from the perception of the Absolute, Brahman, or whatever term one uses.

 

[Sunstone]

My own understanding of the subject is that the mystical experience takes place outside of consciousness. But I acknowledge the science on this issue is not yet settled.

 

[SalixIncendium]

My own understanding of the subject is that the mystical experience takes place outside of consciousness. But I acknowledge the science on this issue is not yet settled.

We already understand that you and I define consciousness differently. IIRC, you define consciousness of a product of the mind. I see it as something that exists outside of the mind.

That said, the experience likely occurs in the same 'place' for both of us; the difference lies in how we are defining the term 'consciousness.'

 

[Sunstone]

We already understand that you and I define consciousness differently. IIRC, you define consciousness of a product of the mind. I see it as something that exists outside of the mind.

That said, the experience likely occurs in the same 'place' for both of us; the difference lies in how we are defining the term 'consciousness.'

I agree with all your points. On one topic after another, the differences between us come down to little more than semantics and -- of course -- your ...um... "fashion sense".

I believe a primary reason for our agreement is the fact we've had similar experiences of these matters. Only our interpretations differ, and those interpretations are largely a matter of the language we use. If we had had very different experiences, we'd probably have genuine disagreements. But as it is, we've seen the same tree -- we just use different words and concepts to describe it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Does the mystical experience take place outside of consciousness or within consciousness?

I am leaving the terms here undefined on purpose so that you can define them according to your own understanding of what they mean.

I never called myself a mystic though I am (as per YourDictionarys definition of the term)

Everything we experience and our perspectives of say the divine, spirits, or X eurphic experience we can't explain are received by meditation (reflection mostly) and just being ones with all. It's like throughout the day you get this lightbulb affect. You can either go with it or sit it aside.

Consciousness, I read, has to do with awareness. Some refer it to altered states of mind. When I have a "mystic" experience the Result is an altered state of mind. What comes from the insight is more openness to being rather than consciousness being the experience itself.

Insight spiritual experiences take place through the mind. The experiences influences our consciousness to where we have altered states of consciousness. Some call this awakening from god. Some from self one with the divine. There are many names.

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I assume out of means from consciousness. I'd say instead consciousness is the result of mystic experience and insight.

Since they are both together, a cause and effect, I'd say within consciousness.

 

[Jumi]

Regards some that I've had, the feeling doesn't feel like it's inside or outside consciousness. It's interesting that memory can fool us somewhat so shortly after when we are "back" in the same place we remember that our descriptions of memories of that place were not entirely accurate.

 

[Kirran]

By definition, I think an experience occurs within consciousness. But I guess what we call a mystical experience can be pointing us to what we are before we get into consciousness.

 

[David T]

My own understanding of the subject is that the mystical experience takes place outside of consciousness. But I acknowledge the science on this issue is not yet settled.

The unconscious as jung defined it is primary . The conscious state as jung definded it is just this and is superficial with no depth but it can can have broad knowledge and that would be mistaken for depth magically reasoned. Socrates directly addressed this about 2400 years ago. "i know what i do not know you only know what you know" dont ask philosophers what the heck that means though. They havent even figured out the liers paradox.

 

[Sunstone]

By definition, I think an experience occurs within consciousness. But I guess what we call a mystical experience can be pointing us to what we are before we get into consciousness.

Indeed, to say that mystical awareness is an "experience" is mere convention since "experience" typically assumes an "I" that does the experiencing. But in a state of mystical awareness, there is no "I" to do the experiencing. However, "mystical experience" is a convenient term.

I agree with you about a mystical experience most likely being some kind of reversion to a pre-conscious state of awareness that exists in some animals today and existed in our ancestors.

 

[Kirran]

Indeed, to say that mystical awareness is an "experience" is mere convention since "experience" typically assumes an "I" that does the experiencing. But in a state of mystical awareness, there is no "I" to do the experiencing. However, "mystical experience" is a convenient term.

I agree with you about a mystical experience most likely being some kind of reversion to a pre-conscious state of awareness that exists in some animals today and existed in our ancestors.

I dunno y'know, I think there's traction to it. What we call a mystical experience can still be said to be bound in time and space. Limited. So I think it can still be termed an experience of a sort.