Palestianian atheist arrested

[Meow Mix]

if you dislike our primitive insecure Muslim men, go stick with your rapist, torturer, killer gunmen and leave us alone with our domestic issues

.

But the rapist/torturers are primitive insecure little people too, I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm talking about barbarians. This whole thing has nothing to do with Islam, it has to do with people who are oppressors. That they're Muslims is just incidental and beside the point.

Every country has slobbering cavemen, it just happens that Palestine has some in their government. We had some in our government here in America recently too (and even by that I mean more so than usual). So don't take this as an "us vs them" thing, it's not. Sorry if it came off that way but that's not my intention.

 

[Autodidact]

attacking us is free speech to you

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I haven't attacked anyone, .lava. Free speech means voicing my opinion. Do you think I should have the right to do that, even when it differs from yours?

btw, do you have enough information yet to decide whether the authorities acted rightly in jailing this man?

 

[Meow Mix]

attacking us is free speech to you

.

Who do you mean by "us" and who's attacking "you?"

 

[Meow Mix]

There are no Muslim rapists, torturers or killer gunmen? That's news to me.

I believe that Meow was careful to make it clear she is insulting opponents of free speech, not necessarily Muslims. Or are you saying those are the same thing?

Are you Palestinian? If not, how did this become your domestic issue?

Is there something wrong with extending my compassion to people who live in Palestine?

Yes, thank you. I've made comments about Shariah being bad but only in response to people who have said Shariah explicitely contains an absence of freedom of speech. I've only said that IF that is true, then Shariah is awful (but not Islam itself).

I like Islam and Muslims, I certainly would never funnel vitriol at them for the sake of being Muslim. I'm firing off anger at these PARTICULAR Muslims not because they are Muslims but because they are also oppressive barbarians. I'm also angry at any Americans that have jailed people without cause as .lava. pointed out. I'm also angry that China censors information and has whole swaths of human rights violations. This isn't a Muslim thing at all; it's a civilization vs. barbarians thing.

Barbarian being defined as using savage, unnecessary force.

 

[IslamDude]

You seemed to insinuate there were exceptions if someone is talking about a beloved figure to 2 billion people, as if that's different from someone talking about some other subject.

Not exceptions, expectations. Bad ones.

 

[Meow Mix]

Not exceptions, expectations. Bad ones.

Gotcha, yeah that's true. Someone should expect more of a response if they're talking about something held very dear by a lot of people -- but in a place with civilized laws all they would have to worry about is people stepping up to prove them wrong, not JAILING them... having their family exile them... having some people want to MURDER them. It's sickening. I hope things get better in Palestine, I really do... I feel terribly sorry for the people that live there that may find themselves with far less rights than they deserve for no good reason.

 

[Autodidact]

Gotcha, yeah that's true. Someone should expect more of a response if they're talking about something held very dear by a lot of people -- but in a place with civilized laws all they would have to worry about is people stepping up to prove them wrong, not JAILING them... having their family exile them... having some people want to MURDER them. It's sickening. I hope things get better in Palestine, I really do... I feel terribly sorry for the people that live there that may find themselves with far less rights than they deserve for no good reason.

I repeat, Meow, as Muslim governments go, Palestine is considered one of the more liberal and secular.

 

[Meow Mix]

I repeat, Meow, as Muslim governments go, Palestine is considered one of the more liberal and secular.

Doesn't mean Islam is the culprit. Most of the Muslims I've talked to blame society for the failures of many of those governments to respect human rights. Personally I'm in no position to blame Islam for it, particularly when I talk to so many nice, educated and respectable Muslim friends here.

I do find it dubious that Islam provides a "perfect way of life" when clearly people are having such difficulty even implementing it, but that's beside the point. I don't blame Islam for the cesspools that some of those countries are any more than I blame Christianity for the Salem trials and the Crusades. The religions might play some part but there's also a hodgepodge mix of politics and the fact that some human beings are probably going to be downright nasty and use whatever they can to justify it, no matter what it is they're justifying it with.

 

[IslamDude]

Ok, I see what you're saying. Yeah, it's not always prudent to do it. But how else was this poor Palestinian man to engage in the basic human right and pleasure of relating his ideas to others?

I personally don't disagree with him sharing his ideas. But of course I don't agree with the insulting. Either way, the jailing is completely unnecessary and accomplishes nothing.

He found an optional and anonymous medium, but they tracked him down anyway like a pack of slobbering rabid dogs. That's what everyone is so outraged about: they care so much about oppressing that they actually spent the resources to have people SPY on him and then report him to authorities so they could RUIN HIS LIFE over a few pages of him merely expressing his opinion.

I thought on this guy a lot last night. I'm 27, he's only a year younger than me. But now his whole life is ruined, at least as he knew it -- all because he had the misfortune of being born in a barbaric hellhole stuck in the 2nd century BC. Giving these cavemen the internet and expecting them to act civilized with it is laughable.

I'm not calling Muslims cavemen, just anyone that oppresses as these have. China has cavemen that censor things, America apparently jailed some people without cause, these are all barbaric primitives that the world would be better without (meaning, if they get themselves educated... not the darker alternative )

I very much agree, there's no controlling the reactions of the masses with regards to their take on blasphemy. However, a government's failure in such a matter rally gets us nowhere.

 

[Meow Mix]

I personally don't disagree with him sharing his ideas. But of course I don't agree with the insulting. Either way, the jailing is completely unnecessary and accomplishes nothing.



I very much agree, there's no controlling the reactions of the masses with regards to their take on blasphemy. However, a government's failure in such a matter rally gets us nowhere.

Then I think we're in complete agreement.

Though, whether or not he was "insulting" is a gray matter to me. Maybe he could have used less strong words, but it sounded like he wasn't just hate-mongering Mohammed -- he sounded like he was trying to make a point that he could provide arguments for.

That's neither here nor there though. Using the force of law against this man is agreed to have been unnecessary.

 

[jarofthoughts]

You of course don't consider them so, we do. They are sacred and holy to us. That is a fact.



Of course not. Also that's besides the point. Saying someone was jailed for arguing or disagreeing with something is completely different to saying that person was jailed for insulting religious wholly figure to almost 2 billion people. Intentional misrepresentation of the truth to the public in such a manner is considered propaganda. If it's unintentional, then it's still propaganja.

Nuff said.

Right, let's take this from the top again.

NOTHING is above criticism or ridicule.
NO-ONE has the right to not be offended.
Apart from inciting violence EVERYTHING is up for grabs.

Also, if you want to talk about propaganda and misrepresentation, where is your evidence for Islam's central claim?
How can you be SURE it is not a misrepresentation?

 

[Autodidact]

Doesn't mean Islam is the culprit. Most of the Muslims I've talked to blame society for the failures of many of those governments to respect human rights. Personally I'm in no position to blame Islam for it, particularly when I talk to so many nice, educated and respectable Muslim friends here.

I do find it dubious that Islam provides a "perfect way of life" when clearly people are having such difficulty even implementing it, but that's beside the point. I don't blame Islam for the cesspools that some of those countries are any more than I blame Christianity for the Salem trials and the Crusades. The religions might play some part but there's also a hodgepodge mix of politics and the fact that some human beings are probably going to be downright nasty and use whatever they can to justify it, no matter what it is they're justifying it with.

I blame Christianity for the crusades.

 

[Meow Mix]

I blame Christianity for the crusades.

Well, I don't, and I think it's dubious to blame a whole school of thought for some that abuse it.

 

[IslamDude]

Gotcha, yeah that's true. Someone should expect more of a response if they're talking about something held very dear by a lot of people -- but in a place with civilized laws all they would have to worry about is people stepping up to prove them wrong, not JAILING them... having their family exile them... having some people want to MURDER them. It's sickening. I hope things get better in Palestine, I really do... I feel terribly sorry for the people that live there that may find themselves with far less rights than they deserve for no good reason.

Well.... in a perfectly civilized society, yes. However do take not we're dealing with insults here, not simple argumentation (providing the source isn't a bunch of lies). Some places back in London, I can easily have the living daylights beaten out of me simply for looking someone in the eyes for too long. Because it's considered insulting. I could have a lot worse done to me if I were to actually insult who a person holds dear to them.

Freedom of expression is a fine thing. However as far as hurtful insults to figures people love and respect, it isn't often that mobs will simply step up to prove someone wrong.

So when publishing to the public, whether anonymously or not, a person's gotta know that such insults do not attract the best kind of attention.

 

[Meow Mix]

Well.... in a perfectly civilized society, yes. However do take not we're dealing with insults here, not simple argumentation (providing the source isn't a bunch of lies). Some places back in London, I can easily have the living daylights beaten out of me simply for looking someone in the eyes for too long. Because it's considered insulting. I could have a lot worse done to me if I were to actually insult who a person holds dear to them.

Freedom of expression is a fine thing. However as far as hurtful insults to figures people love and respect, it isn't often that mobs will simply step up to prove someone wrong.

So when publishing to the public, whether anonymously or not, a person's gotta know that such insults do not attract the best kind of attention.

And I understand that, I'm just saying it's so unfortunate some people let their animal instincts get the best of them. I'd never arrest someone even if they were insulting my dead mother. I'd vehemently despise them, yes. I'd prove them wrong about what they were saying. But I wouldn't strip their rights or ruin their lives over mere words!

 

[IslamDude]

Right, let's take this from the top again.

NOTHING is above criticism or ridicule.
NO-ONE has the right to not be offended.
Apart from inciting violence EVERYTHING is up for grabs.

Those are some nice opinions. Happy to make acquaintance.

Also, if you want to talk about propaganda and misrepresentation, where is your evidence for Islam's central claim?

I left it at home.

How can you be SURE it is not a misrepresentation?

Like this

I'm not a fan of deviating that far from the OP. I was merely trying to stress the difference in tone the source from the OP was compared to what others were portraying it as. That was as far as I was going with the Propaganja yo.

If you want to debate evidence for Islam's central claim, you have the option to make a new topic.

 

[IslamDude]

And I understand that, I'm just saying it's so unfortunate some people let their animal instincts get the best of them. I'd never arrest someone even if they were insulting my dead mother. I'd vehemently despise them, yes. I'd prove them wrong about what they were saying. But I wouldn't strip their rights or ruin their lives over mere words!

Honestly, if someone dissed my mom, let's say it wouldn't bring out the best in me.

However, I very much agree with what your saying on a political scale. People are fallible and make horrible errors, but such erroneous method of judgment should never be in government policies.

 

[.lava]

Right, let's take this from the top again.

NOTHING is above criticism or ridicule.

says who?

.

 

[Meow Mix]

says who?

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Basic human rights. If there's anything that can't be questioned then there's no more thinking, just stagnation.

 

[.lava]

Basic human rights. If there's anything that can't be questioned then there's no more thinking, just stagnation.

again, says who? basic human rights? what makes you think they are perfect and why do you think i must accept it?

.