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Palestianian atheist arrested

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
While I agree with you that I find it hard to believe anyone can defend relations between a 9 year old and an adult (though for the record I also am pretty sure I've seen Abibi argue that Mohammed didn't consummate the marriage until she was much older -- keep that in mind)
Oh, I certainly keep the age numbers game in mind, Kitty Mix. The point is there has simply been no waffling on the age of Aisha until relatively recent times. For centuries, Muslims felt no need, whatsoever, to doctor the numbers to make them more palatable to our sensitivities. That is an inconvenient truth that Abibi should find fairly hard to get around, but one he and other Muslims are likely to simply sidestep because they can be almost certain that most people won't know.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Interesting. I wasn't aware that several of them were women he had enslaved after killing their husbands.

It just keeps betting better and better, doesn't it? And yet they have the audacity to demand that we respect and revere this disgusting, pathetic excuse for a human being?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
It just keeps betting better and better, doesn't it? And yet they have the audacity to demand that we respect and revere this disgusting, pathetic excuse for a human being?
Muslims: Should Father Heathen be arrested, or does he have a right to express his opinion?
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
Muslims: Should Father Heathen be arrested, or does he have a right to express his opinion?

Pretty sure in Palestine he would already be behind bars; his life in ruins, his family disowning him, and even those he cares about hoping he remains in jail for the rest of his natural life so he doesn't get killed on the street.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
No, he shouldn't be arrested, he obviously has the right to express his opinion about him.

I wonder how much in the minority the people who actually do jail people for expressing themselves are?

For instance if all you knew about Americans were from TV shows like Jerry Springer and the very noisy creationist movement here you might suspect that Americans are off their rockers, but if you actually walked around America and talked to people you'd find that such nutballs are in the minority (they're just very loud and get a lot of press coverage).

So, I wonder how many people... even in the deepest, most backwards parts of oppressive regimes... are actually in support of the oppression. Maybe it's just a loud minority?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
So, I wonder how many people... even in the deepest, most backwards parts of oppressive regimes... are actually in support of the oppression. Maybe it's just a loud minority?
Waffa Sultan speculated that as much as 30% of the Muslim world remains Muslims out of social convention and the stigma that renouncing Islam draws. IF TRUE, that is somewhat heartening, though their lives must be miserable. What she was claiming is that these people would leave Islam behind in a heartbeat - if they could - and never look back.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
Waffa Sultan speculated that as much as 30% of the Muslim world remains Muslims out of social convention and the stigma that renouncing Islam draws. IF TRUE, that is somewhat heartening, though their lives must be miserable. What she was claiming is that these people would leave Islam behind in a heartbeat - if they could - and never look back.

I don't think Islam is necessarily an ugly thing though thanks to my Muslim friends on RF. It seems to me that the problem isn't Islam, the problem is the culture in these places like Palestine and Saudi Arabia. Their interpretations of Islam may excacerbate it but Muslims here have proven to me that just like Christianity it's not the religion that causes atrocities so much as it is the political/religious/cultural climate of a given time period or a given location.

If Palestine/Saudi Arabia/whatever didn't have Islam to use to justify their oppression then they'd use something else, I'd guess.

I do think it's interesting if true that people are afraid to openly leave a religion but again, I blame the culture because clearly people can believe in Islam and still be rational, friendly, civil people. It will just be nice when people in Palestine and Saudi Arabia and other such places start figuring out that freedom is the way, not oppression.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I don't think Islam is necessarily an ugly thing though thanks to my Muslim friends on RF. It seems to me that the problem isn't Islam, the problem is the culture in these places like Palestine and Saudi Arabia. Their interpretations of Islam may excacerbate it but Muslims here have proven to me that just like Christianity it's not the religion that causes atrocities so much as it is the political/religious/cultural climate of a given time period or a given location.

If Palestine/Saudi Arabia/whatever didn't have Islam to use to justify their oppression then they'd use something else, I'd guess.

I do think it's interesting if true that people are afraid to openly leave a religion but again, I blame the culture because clearly people can believe in Islam and still be rational, friendly, civil people. It will just be nice when people in Palestine and Saudi Arabia and other such places start figuring out that freedom is the way, not oppression.

Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia...what do these countries have in common?
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia...what do these countries have in common?

Would you want to live in China, Communist Russia, Nazi Germany, Inquisition Spain? The countries in Africa (I honestly couldn't name them) that are killing children for being witches? North Korea?

Islam is just the justifier for oppression, just like (in those I listed, in order) communism, communism, fascism, and Christianity were the justifiers for the oppression there.

That doesn't mean Islam itself is the problem. It's the political/cultural/religious conglomeration that's the problem. It doesn't help that these countries have terrible standards of education (they have much less universities per capita than first world countries do) which just excacerbates the problem.

Oppressive barbarians will be oppressive barbarians and they'll use anything they can to do it. Even in America, Japanese families were put into camps during WWII, and McCarthyism was a blatant example of "thought police" even in the "land of the free." Nowhere is exempt from barbarism, and it would be foolish to pin it squarely on the nose of any particular religion or even social theory. The fact is that some people have no regard for freedom and they'll use anything at their disposal to justify their rejection of civil liberties; be it communism, Islam, Christianity, fascism, even "the spread of democracy."

They're all places I wouldn't want to live... :sarcastic

I second that, I'd never want to live in an oppressive hellhole.
 
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Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Would you want to live in China, Communist Russia, Nazi Germany, Inquisition Spain? The countries in Africa (I honestly couldn't name them) that are killing children for being witches? North Korea?

Islam is just the justifier for oppression, just like (in those I listed, in order) communism, communism, fascism, and Christianity were the justifiers for the oppression there.
Actually, communism, fascism and Christianity all suck.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I wonder how much in the minority the people who actually do jail people for expressing themselves are?

For instance if all you knew about Americans were from TV shows like Jerry Springer and the very noisy creationist movement here you might suspect that Americans are off their rockers, but if you actually walked around America and talked to people you'd find that such nutballs are in the minority (they're just very loud and get a lot of press coverage).

So, I wonder how many people... even in the deepest, most backwards parts of oppressive regimes... are actually in support of the oppression. Maybe it's just a loud minority?

Thank you for saying this. Whats for sure is, that the number of those people is much less than it appears to be, or not as much as one might think after the impression they get. The fact is like you said that certain things attract media attention much more, and for a person only knowing information about another community which they are not familiar with through the media, is not enough to really see how that community view things. Also, the whole point of calling a regime oppressive, is that it does things regardless or most of the time regardless of how people feel or think about it.
 
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Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
Thank you for saying this. Whats for sure is, that the number of those people is much less than it appears to be, or not as much as one might think after the impression they get. The fact is like you said that certain things attract media attention much more, and for a person only knowing information about another community which they are not familiar with through the media, is not enough to really see how that community view things. Also, the whole point of calling a regime oppressive, is that it does things regardless or most of the time regardless of how people feel or think about it.

This is what I suspected... I feel sorry for the rational human beings, Islamic and not, who are given such a bad name under such regimes. Even regimes that are supposed to be good do foolish and evil things like my American government (imprisoning people in WW2 for being Japanese, McCarthyism, holding people who "look like terrorists" in secret prisons without habeus corpus, etc.)
 
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