Pantheism

[Moonshadow]

SoI find myself confused by the term stillI thought I had it all figured out and that was indeed a Pantheist, I even dropped the Naturalistic Pagan label, created a website, came out as a Pantheist, etc.Then I joined this forum for Pantheists-somewhere other than this and learned! NO I am NOT a Pantheist?!?They claim a Pantheist is someone who believes that EVERYTHING is God. Your car is God. Your Gun is God. Trees are God or alternatively Divine. Theres no reason to worry about man cutting down trees in the forest to build a house because not only are the trees and the forest divine but so is the house.Well, to me The NATURAL Universe is Sacred, Holy and Divine-I Indeed revere, honor and respect it, the good and the bad parts of it, storms and earthquakes, butterflies and doves, snakes and cats. I dont just see the good parts as I have been accused of over there but I also do not believe that non natural objects are divine or God!So...Now Im just as confused as I ever was and feel like I am back to Square one! Its so confusing, Strangely enough I find myself on Pantheist websites that say that the Natural Universe is divine. and I think, oh thats what I believe so I must be a Pantheist? No. LOL

 

[Twig pentagram]

There are many different views on pantheism. Most pantheist differ in opinions on certain aspects of the idea. Just because you have a difference of opinion about the divine nature of things does'nt mean your not a pantheistic thinker.
After reading the statements in the OP I would consider you a pantheist. We all define ourselves though, so It's up to you to find out who you are.

 

[A-ManESL]

Moonshadow what do you mean by God in the first place? And have you considered that you might be a panentheist? In pathentheism, I believe, everything is a subset of the metaphysical Reality(or God), in other words, the whole universe is only a part of God and God is something besides just the physical universe.

Regards

 

[xkatz]

They claim a Pantheist is someone who believes that EVERYTHING is God. Your car is God. Your Gun is God. Trees are God or alternatively Divine.

Sounds more like animism to me.

 

[MaybeSpartacus]

I thought pantheism was God is the Universe and the Universe is God. Not specific objects.

 

[Willamena]

SoI find myself confused by the term stillI thought I had it all figured out and that was indeed a Pantheist, I even dropped the Naturalistic Pagan label, created a website, came out as a Pantheist, etc.Then I joined this forum for Pantheists-somewhere other than this and learned! NO I am NOT a Pantheist?!?They claim a Pantheist is someone who believes that EVERYTHING is God. Your car is God. Your Gun is God.

Right.

Trees are God or alternatively Divine. Theres no reason to worry about man cutting down trees in the forest to build a house because not only are the trees and the forest divine but so is the house.Well, to me The NATURAL Universe is Sacred, Holy and Divine-I Indeed revere, honor and respect it, the good and the bad parts of it, storms and earthquakes, butterflies and doves, snakes and cats. I dont just see the good parts as I have been accused of over there but I also do not believe that non natural objects are divine or God!So...Now Im just as confused as I ever was and feel like I am back to Square one! Its so confusing, Strangely enough I find myself on Pantheist websites that say that the Natural Universe is divine. and I think, oh thats what I believe so I must be a Pantheist? No. LOL

How does the Natural Universe differ from everything?

 

[Erebus]

I thought pantheism was God is the Universe and the Universe is God. Not specific objects.

That's true, but since God is considered to literally be the Universe in it's entirety, everything in the universe is also a part of God including planets, organisms and kitchen appliances.

*Edit* should probably mention that as with everything else, pantheism splits into various different schools of thought. I don't know whether the stance that everything natural or the stance that everything natural and man-made is considered "proper" pantheism. There are actually whole books discussing it.

 

[blackout]

What exactly are the differences between pantheism and animism?

I think Shyanekh once suggested that I am an animist.

When I consider everything to be god,
it includes of course...every thing.
Down to my $9 toaster.

... and this slightly disgusting bag of dill pickle potato chips.

 

[Breathe]

Sounds more like animism to me.

Ditto, sounds like animism to me, too.

 

[Willamena]

Pehaps the distinction is in individuality. Animism gives each object a consciousness, where Pantheism is all objects "God"?

I've probably just shown my ignorance of animism.

 

[Erebus]

What exactly are the differences between pantheism and animism?

I think Shyanekh once suggested that I am an animist.

When I consider everything to be god,
it includes of course...every thing.
Down to my $9 toaster.

... and this slightly disgusting bag of dill pickle potato chips.

You can be both a pantheist and an animist. Pantheism claims that God is literally everything as you say. Animism makes the claim that everything has a soul or is in some way a living thing, including plants and inanimate objects. Some animists will claim that only natural things have a soul, others will claim that even man-made objects have a soul, since everything is ultimately derived from nature.

One of the problems in defining animism of course is that the concept of what a soul is and what having a soul entails can vary wildly from person to person.

 

[Moonshadow]

Moonshadow what do you mean by God in the first place? And have you considered that you might be a panentheist? In pathentheism, I believe, everything is a subset of the metaphysical Reality(or God), in other words, the whole universe is only a part of God and God is something besides just the physical universe.

Regards

I have studied religion extensively as a UUI am most assuredly NOT a Panentheist, I have NO belief in God. I believe that The Natural Universe/Nature is the ONLY thing that deserves respect, reverence and Honor and that it is Holy. I was raised as a theistic Pagan and many years later the best term I have found for myself was Pantheist I thought but not if I am required to believe that everything is God.

 

[Moonshadow]

Ok so then why was I told this by the President of the World Pantheist Movement when I asked him the same Question?Ace, I don't know what pantheist forum you joined, or who were the "pantheists" who said this to you. I would like to know if you can remember.But believe me, what you describe above does not represent a typical Naturalistic Pantheist view like you will find in the World Pantheist Movement.WPM pantheism means a profound reverence for Nature and the Universe. It does not imply any creator God, in fact most of us do not even use the word God because it's misleading.By "Nature" most of us mean natural, not human-made.A small minority say it means "everything" including oil slicks, bits of chewing gum stuck to the pavement, torture sessions, war, pollution, deforestation. These people are in a small minority.What you describe of your own position sounds perfectly pantheist to me and would fit well with most of the pantheists I know. (I am president of the World Pantheist Movement) The key to understanding this, by the way, is that for Naturalistic Pantheism it is a deliberate human choice to revere Nature and the Universe, it is not a requirement or an act of faith.Because it is a free choice, we are free to exclude or include what we want. Most of us exclude anything that is damaging to the health or diversity of nature. It would in fact be very strange to revere Nature and also revere those human-made things that destroy Nature.

 

[Moonshadow]

and He is right.I am not going to worship my toaster and I am not going to worship something that destroys that which I find holy and Yes, worship for ME is the correct term so I will find something else that describes my beliefs. I would use Naturalistic Pagan but then morons out there assume I practice Magic and believe in stupid irrational things.

 

[Willamena]

Sounds like a plan.

 

[A-ManESL]

I have studied religion extensively as a UUI am most assuredly NOT a Panentheist, I have NO belief in God. I believe that The Natural Universe/Nature is the ONLY thing that deserves respect, reverence and Honor and that it is Holy. I was raised as a theistic Pagan and many years later the best term I have found for myself was Pantheist I thought but not if I am required to believe that everything is God.

Okay. Apparently by God you mean the notion of something like a Supreme Being. I was wondering if you had considered God as symbolized by Brahman in Hinduism.

Regards

 

[Moonshadow]

Then theres this letter I just got to my question:________As a Religious Naturalist, do you believe everything in Nature is holy or that just natural things are holy?I thought I was a Pantheist, in fact I asked Dr Paul Harrison if I fit the description of Pantheism and he said-Naturalistic, because I do not believe in God, I do not believe EVERYTHING is Holy or Divine and yet I am on 2 seperate message boards that are telling me that to be a Pantheist means you think even your toaster is holy, I cant see myself worshipping pots and Pans and toasters.It also makes no sense to try and preserve nature and protect it and then to revere and honor that which is trying to destroy it. They have already told me, I can pick litter up off the beaches here n Oregon if I so choose to do so but the candy wrappers and the seashells are BOTH God, Both sacred, so its not needed. huh?So, what is the Religious Naturalist Pov on this? Everything is sacred or Just The Natural Universe/Nature?ThanksAce____________To which I got this answer:Ace, I agree with you completely. I am also in the position of recommending a book that (in my opinion) NAILS such questions. Nails them better than my own book "Biotheolgy," nails them even better than Loyal Rue's book "Religion is NOT about God" and better than Chet Raymo's "When God is Gone Everything is Holy." I just finished reading it, and I am SO excited to find something that navigates all the territory so effectively, including the kind of question you are asking (and answering correctly in my view, though not as thoroughly or as satisfactorily as this book does). The book is "A Religion of Nature" by Donald Crosby. He is a religious naturalist, and specifically says he is not a pantheist or a panentheist. Maybe you are such as well, however because you practice magic and other Pagan type activities and follow a wheel I would say that the term Naturalistic Pagan applies to you quite well, if someone does not understand what the term -Naturalistic- means then that is their issue to deal with or you can try to explain.

 

[earlwooters]

Pantheism is a developing movement. The Pope actually warned Catholics about it, so it must be gaining steam. It has an extremely varied belief system. Some only think that nature is sacred. Others believe nature to be God. Some are just "treehuggers". Pantheism seems to be moving in the direction of the ALL. Everything is part of the ALL, much like Brahman. Everything that exists is part of the ALL, because the ALL is everything. The universe is everything that there is, so we and all we know exists within it as part of it. We move, we change, we die. Yet all along the way we are still part of the ALL. Most Pantheists believe the Earth is our house and we should take better care of it, and the creatures that inhabit it. It's like expanding the golden rule to include animals and plants. Some Pantheists refer to the ALL in different ways, and sometimes call it God. I call it El.

 

[idav]

Pantheism is a developing movement. The Pope actually warned Catholics about it, so it must be gaining steam.

Yup thats why the Vatican spoke against the movie Avatar. Said it was selling worship of nature.

 

[idav]

SoI find myself confused by the term stillI thought I had it all figured out and that was indeed a Pantheist, I even dropped the Naturalistic Pagan label, created a website, came out as a Pantheist, etc.Then I joined this forum for Pantheists-somewhere other than this and learned! NO I am NOT a Pantheist?!?They claim a Pantheist is someone who believes that EVERYTHING is God. Your car is God. Your Gun is God. Trees are God or alternatively Divine. Theres no reason to worry about man cutting down trees in the forest to build a house because not only are the trees and the forest divine but so is the house.Well, to me The NATURAL Universe is Sacred, Holy and Divine-I Indeed revere, honor and respect it, the good and the bad parts of it, storms and earthquakes, butterflies and doves, snakes and cats. I dont just see the good parts as I have been accused of over there but I also do not believe that non natural objects are divine or God!So...Now Im just as confused as I ever was and feel like I am back to Square one! Its so confusing, Strangely enough I find myself on Pantheist websites that say that the Natural Universe is divine. and I think, oh thats what I believe so I must be a Pantheist? No. LOL

Those non natural objects that you named, man-made things, come from the natural stuff. Even the metals in the gun. You feel the earth is sacred but once man uses it for something it is no longer sacred? It does make sense to revere more the source of the things we use and not to revere how we use the stuff as tools. Is a house sacred or is it more the materials used to build the house?