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Pat Robertson says Haiti under a Curse

tumbleweed41

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
LittleNipper said:
So scientists have been able to transform animals from one species into another at whim---if they imagine nature did such without a mind?
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Well, with your obvious lack of knowledge of Scientific Method, I encourage you again to learn something from here....http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/evolution-vs-creationism/....and get back to the subject at hand.

LittleNipper said:
And when Christians show up to feed, house and clothe them, they might have second thoughts. The book of Job tells me that into every life come trials and tribulations ------- even to very nice people. So be forewarned!
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Perhaps they will learn something from the secular organizations that come to help them instead.
 
L

LittleNipper

Well-Known Member
Autodidact said:
Pardon? Are you seriously asserting with a straight face that modern medicine is in any way, shape or form Christian? I don't know whether I can find words for how wrong that is. You have now made a laughing-stock of yourself.

So you don't think there would be any difference in the result then? Aren't you the person who asserted that answered prayers was evidence of the existence of your God? But now you don't think this evidence is any stronger than for voudou deities or no deity at all? Interesting.

Does prayer work or not?
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Are you suggesting that there were and are no Christians involved in medicine. Louis Pasteur was a world renown Christian. Doctor ethics are heavily Judeao/Christian in nature. You are actually suggesting that a person's ethics are not influenced by their virtures? I believe most doctors would love to have prayers directed towards their work and their patient's health.

I never yet have had a doctor tell me not to bother to pray for him/her because he/she didn't need help from some god who doesn't exist.
 
L

LittleNipper

Well-Known Member
tumbleweed41 said:
Modern medicine was developed using evolutionary biology.:facepalm:
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Modern medicine was developed applying some techniques, but, if one wishes to stay well, they will likely consider "natural" nutrician considerations. Evolutionary biology does not account for the fact that a medicine can just as likely kill one; as well as, possibly cure some individuals. :facepalm:
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
LittleNipper said:
Are you suggesting that there were and are no Christians involved in medicine. Louis Pasteur was a world renown Christian.
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No, what I'm suggesting is that there were and are Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists and voudou practitioners.
Doctor ethics are heavily Judeao/Christian in nature.
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That's a steaming pile of crap.
You are actually suggesting that a person's ethics are not influenced by their virtures?
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What on earth are you talking about?
I believe most doctors would love to have prayers directed towards their work and their patient's health.
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Are you trying to assert that intercessory prayer works? Because it doesn't. Fact.

I never yet have had a doctor tell me not to bother to pray for him/her because he/she didn't need help from some god who doesn't exist.
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Well there's no harm in it--or in a voudou ritual. They're equally beneficial.

Look, you're asserting that Christian prayer works better than voudou. Do you have an iota of evidence to support that claim?
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
LittleNipper said:
Modern medicine was developed applying some techniques, but, if one wishes to stay well, they will likely consider "natural" nutrician considerations. Evolutionary biology does not account for the fact that a medicine can just as likely kill one; as well as, possibly cure some individuals. :facepalm:
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Are you trying to argue that modern medicine does more harm than good? Or what is your point?
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
LittleNipper said:
I tend to imagine chicken bones have no power ----- they obviously, did nothing to save the chicken...:p
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You need to read up on the ritual practice of bone pointing by the Australian Aborigines. Several documented deaths have occurred because a victim was pointed and killed by a "spear of thought."
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Are you trying to assert that intercessory prayer works? Because it doesn't. Fact.
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Actually, there is some evidence to the contrary. Enough that doctors are beginning to sit up and take notice that patients who are prayed for improve more quickly.
 
S

Skeptisch

Well-Known Member
Under the leadership of Dr. Herbert Benson, the The John Templeton Foundation forked over 2.4 million dollars to scientifically test the effects of prayer by three Christian congregations on three groups of heart-bypass surgery patients. You can read the four-page Templeton synopsis or the abstract from the American Heart Journal of April 2006, but here is a short summary from the synopsis:

Some patients were told they may or may not receive intercessory prayer: complications occurred in 52 percent of those who received prayer (Group 1) versus 51 percent of those who did not receive prayer (Group 2). Complications occurred in 59 percent of patients who were told they would receive prayer (Group 3) versus 52 percent, who also received prayer, but were uncertain of receiving it (Group 1). Major complications and thirty-day mortality were similar across the three groups.

Whoops! Looks like prayer did nothing for Groups 1 and 2 and actually hurt Group 3. Maybe it was the performance pressure on the folks who knew they were being prayed for. Maybe the selected churches didn't have their total prayer mojo going that week. Maybe Satan jumps in and messes with the intergalactic prayer thoroughfares when he knows a watershed prayer experiment is going down... Who knows?

I do know that if the experiment had gone the other way, the believers who roll their eyes and explain condescendingly, "God doesn't like to be tested that way," would have embraced the results like grim death.
http://www.gocreate.com/workouts/wx079.htm
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Skeptisch said:
Under the leadership of Dr. Herbert Benson, the The John Templeton Foundation forked over 2.4 million dollars to scientifically test the effects of prayer by three Christian congregations on three groups of heart-bypass surgery patients. You can read the four-page Templeton synopsis or the abstract from the American Heart Journal of April 2006, but here is a short summary from the synopsis:

Some patients were told they may or may not receive intercessory prayer: complications occurred in 52 percent of those who received prayer (Group 1) versus 51 percent of those who did not receive prayer (Group 2). Complications occurred in 59 percent of patients who were told they would receive prayer (Group 3) versus 52 percent, who also received prayer, but were uncertain of receiving it (Group 1). Major complications and thirty-day mortality were similar across the three groups.

Whoops! Looks like prayer did nothing for Groups 1 and 2 and actually hurt Group 3. Maybe it was the performance pressure on the folks who knew they were being prayed for. Maybe the selected churches didn't have their total prayer mojo going that week. Maybe Satan jumps in and messes with the intergalactic prayer thoroughfares when he knows a watershed prayer experiment is going down... Who knows?

I do know that if the experiment had gone the other way, the believers who roll their eyes and explain condescendingly, "God doesn't like to be tested that way," would have embraced the results like grim death.
http://www.gocreate.com/workouts/wx079.htm
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Fortunately, that's not the only study that's been done.
 
tumbleweed41

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
LittleNipper said:
Modern medicine was developed applying some techniques, but, if one wishes to stay well, they will likely consider "natural" nutrician considerations. Evolutionary biology does not account for the fact that a medicine can just as likely kill one; as well as, possibly cure some individuals. :facepalm:
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Yes, it does. Perhaps if you knew more of microbiology, your ignorance would not be so pronounced.

LittleNipper said:
Or maybe you could call down GOD's wrath on your own family as a joke...:facepalm:
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Might as well call down genies to carry me to Wal-Mart, as I believe in your wrathful God about as much as I believe in genies.

LittleNipper said:
Are you suggesting that there were and are no Christians involved in medicine. Louis Pasteur was a world renown Christian. Doctor ethics are heavily Judeao/Christian in nature. You are actually suggesting that a person's ethics are not influenced by their virtures? I believe most doctors would love to have prayers directed towards their work and their patient's health.

I never yet have had a doctor tell me not to bother to pray for him/her because he/she didn't need help from some god who doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

I have yet to have a Doctor tell me I will not recover unless I pray.
It matters not if Pasteur was a Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Atheist. His work in microbiology is one of the basics of evolutionary biology.

Take my personal doctor. He is Hindu. Guess what? I do not care! He can go to his office and pray to Krishna for the well being of his patients all he wants, he can ask for guidance to make the right decisions. That is his prerogative.
He is well versed in anatomy, microbiology, and pathology. That is all that matters to me.
 
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