Alright, I'm swinging back around to reply to earlier posts as I have a few minutes to spend on this....
I've come to realize that too. But I don't think it's as effective or insightful as a real meditation would be.
I always like to play devil's advocate in a discussion to explore the other side. It helps my thinking through the process. So I'll argue that what is happening through a genuine ecstatic experience in a Pentecostal setting is in fact entering into the subtle states of meditation experience brought about through the ritual of drumming, chant, and so forth.
I say drumming, which is common in ritual to induce altered states, is in use in Pentecostal ritual because generally the music used to "raise energy", which is part of ritual, can be very rhythmical. Gospel music is very energetic. I mentioned before pounding on the keys of the piano singing out loudly "I'll fly away, oh glory!'," while stomping on the floor, clapping hands, shaking the tambourine, etc is very energy raising. Then following this song voices raise up in unison, "Praise the Lord! Hallelujah! Thank you Jesus!", creating this group energy. Then the preacher joins in with the microphone attached to the pulpit amplifying him pounding in rhythm like a frame drum at a fire ritual, "Jesus! Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!", again and again. All of this leads one to opening up to subtle energies, which move through them and the group in a created "we-space".
As is typical in all ritual, which all follow the same form: 1. Close the circle (create the space); 2. Raise the energy; 3. Do the work; 4. Ground the energy; 5. Open the circle, they move into the sermon after raising the energy which is "doing the work". They have been made receptive through opening themselves through the ritual of energy raising; music, movement, chanting (in song lyrics and/or glossolalia), offerings of praise, etc, and now the inner work begins of self-reflection, consideration, inspiration of thought, and so forth. Then following this they ground the energy, taking what was opened to with the mind in "doing the work", and grounding it into their body, into their lives as they prepare to leave the ritual. Songs are typically chosen to ground this energy this way, sweet songs, songs of meaning and depth, of dedication, of commitment, and so forth. Then everyone gets up and shakes one other's hands and hugs each other's neck is a greeting of fellowship (opening the circle).
I'm thinking to myself right now you're imagining, "Wow!", it's all there!". Yes, I will say that this is what all ritual does and how it is in fact effective in this way. What positive things I say of the Pentecostals is that they have really got that down, as it does have its roots actually in the tribal forms of religious practice. It's more "raw", rather than watered down as you see in the mainline churches. They have the energy raising and grounding down to an artform. But even in mainline churches you have the same ritual format, just much more tamed down and 'dignified'. It is as effective that way? That's kind of the question at hand.
So is it as effective as a full out sit down meditation practice, is your question. It's two different things as what I described was a group practice, the Pentecostal meeting. Generally when I think of doing meditation practice I am focusing on individual work, though certainly group mediation is important too. In Pentecostal circles the individual goes into his "prayer closet", where he does engage in much more personal, private work. This is definitely a form of meditation. They will likely speak in tongues in prayer and enter into the presence of God. It may be a state of communion of Spirit. They experience this energy surrounding them, and possibly welling up from within them in thanksgiving, or forgiveness, or tears of joy, or tears of release. All of this is in fact subtle state experience in meditation. So it's not necessarily just saying prayers in hopes of answers, but actual state experiences.
Now what I think you are saying and I will agree, that the experience of this can in fact become hindered because of predefined boundaries governing said experiences, generally theologically defined. It tries to say what is allowable and what is not based on doctrinal beliefs, which can in fact conflict with the movements of what happens in subtle states, which are supposed to operate to take you beyond your own present understanding. In my experience, the theologies create fear-boundaries that create this conflict between what is happening in the heart, and what is put into your head by interpreters of belief. So there is some benefit that happens in meditation space, but it is greatly hindered by the experience, or lack of experience, of those teacher who themselves are projecting their own experience as authoritative to others. I think that is a great error, while at its heart it may have good intention to keep people from going off the deepend.
What I am trying to say in the above is that it's useful, but it's really being guided by those that have experience within their own limited frameworks, based on very literal, Authoritarian, Rule/Role based views of the deity form. Even though others can in fact see a much more liberal version of God in Jesus' way, you get a lot of OT rule of God mixed in, which will limit how far one can go into the states of consciousness available to us beyond these forms. So it's useful, it's better than having no sense of the subtle at all, but is frankly just the beginning. I just had this thought that maybe why for many in these churches it becomes about seeking the experience, again and again, for its own sake, is because they are left unsatisfied because they are seeking for something more, something beyond this, but feel they are not allowed to? Hmm, I'll ponder this point some more.
I think that prayers in tongues for a longer time might have better results because it clears your mind. I haven't done much meditation, but I did use to pray in tongues a lot. A practice I did for many years.
I have a feeling if you did set aside the space and learn how to do meditation, you would take to it rather quickly as I did, because of your prior experience entering into these subtle state experiences. I could certainly offer some suggestions for a practice if you wanted to pursue that. For me, as I took to it like a duck to water, I was struck with great surprise how that I had already been doing all of this before! Just more the preliminary steps back then, as I described above.
I've been in a few ecstasies.
Actually, now thinking about it, the first one was before I even prayed in tongues. I probably was 10, I think.
Oh yes, my first major experience was years before I joined up with that Pentecostal group. Glossolalia was something added after I was already experiencing God, beyond what the experience of tongues later offered. It was so strange with that group, which I mentioned to EverChanging as the UPC, they had this strange doctrine that someone does not have the Holy Ghost unless it is evidenced by speaking in tongues. That became rather disconcerting to me to believe, not only because what I experienced was most definitely "divine", long before that experience of tongues, but that watching others who came to church praying fervently at the altar month after month, year after year, praying to be "saved", because they thought they needed to speak in tongues. That actually led to me doubting and questioning all of their teachings and the basis for it. It was really sad to take something like that and make people feel outright despondent and anxiety ridden that they were going to hell because they couldn't do it. How tragic for those people. How messed up was that? I wonder if that group is still hung up on that view of reality?
It's a different form of meditation, but it is most definitely a form. The way we did it would probably go under its own category of meditation, but I realize now that it really is. You and I talked about it before, and I thought more of "yeah, sort of mediation", but now I think it really is.
One thing I didn't go into above talking about ritual, is that meditation practice itself follows the same ritual form. When I do my morning meditation is follows the same pattern. I close the circle by dimming lights, lighting candles, setting out my meditation cushion, placing a singing bowl in front of me, and sitting crossed legged on the cushion on the floor. This creates focus and intention to the practice. Next I raise the energy, in different ways, usually with meditation music, sounding the bowl, chanting a mantra, and focusing on breath and clearing the mind into the space. Next I do the work, entering into subtle and causal states, observing what arises, engaging with subtle forms, learning as a student, as it were. Next I ground the energy, pulling back into the body where the mind/spirit as opened to, taking its energy and awakening it into the mind as I prepare to move out into the day. Finally I open the circle, rising and putting away my ritual objects, blowing out the candles with intention, raising the lights, etc, as I leave the "sanctuary".
Really, what is meditation, but a part of ritual. It's the ritual and the work that has the transformative effect. Of course, having an adequate framework in order to integrate these things is necessary, and why those like you and I had found what was being offered before was insufficient to the job. The world for us became too large to be contained in those views. But the problem is for many is finding a way to rescue the baby that was and is there within what became polluted bathwater for us. It's really a wonderful way to understand this that doesn't judge others whose bathwater hasn't quite got so much dead skin cells in it yet that it needs to be changed for them. Just because one gets rid of the dirty bathwater and replaces it with fresh water, doesn't mean the baby doesn't exist, or that the spiritual baby is becoming a mature spiritual adult. Yes?
It's basically a similar mediation as the chanting by the shaman and by natives in the past. It's essentially what was thought to bring the spirits to communicate with them.
And indeed it did! What the difference is is how it is understood. It doesn't change the basic experience itself. Spirit is Spirit, even if understood as the Great Earth Spirit, or the Risen Christ.
Thoughts?
