McBell
Unbound
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
context.
It would also help to stop trying to modernize it.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
People who dont share your Faith
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
context.
It would also help to stop trying to modernize it.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
That changes nothing.
McBell
Unbound
Jesus never gave a command to not judge at all.
So I agree, you have not presented anything that changes that fact.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
There is a type of judging that is done with charity to help a person out of genuine love. Judging and gossiping can also be a very addictive way to whip oneself into a frenzy and feed a person's pride and get them to not have to focus on themselves.
A few posts down from the OP I mentioned the Christians that I have seen with blood red eyes , beads of sweat on their forehead , and saliva coming forth from their mouth as they shout that homosexuals, atheist, and pagans (and Catholics) are all going to hell.
In jail we have had many fragile people withdrawling from drugs, ashamed, leaving their lives of sin, , and they go to church and hear a preacher come at them like that and they get up and leave. It does them no good.
They're already full of guilt and shame and know there's something very wrong with their lives. The accuser is already beating them up. They don't need to be having visions of worms and maggots eating them and Flames scorching them for all eternity. They need Gods light and mercy.
How do these fire and brimstone preachers know God is any more pleased with them?
People have very hard lives and struggle with depression as it is, so what good does it do for a person's soul to make them more depressed, more anxious, and straight up traumatized because they think so many of their friends and relatives are going to a place of eternal torment.
It is true I judge the philosophy of Richard Dawkins as being quite empty and depressing and not conducive to bring a lot of people happiness. If His views were my philosophy on life, I would have killed myself.
I strongly disagree with Dawkins and I have been given in my own personal life and in the research done, enormous amounts of evidence that make it impossible for me to believe what Dawkins believes.
So, in that sense I suppose you could say I judge, because I believe his views are erroneous and would decrease the peace, hope, joy , and meaning to a lot of people's lives if they were to believe the same.
His views are not good for society because there are many people who do volunteer work, tell the truth, feed the hungry , help the poor, and care for the sick based on their religious convictions.
However I respect what he has to say. He is a very educated man and has a lot of good qualities. I wish we all can understand science, nature, and animals as well as he does.
He isnt aware that he is rejecting God or rejecting the truth, but doing the best with what he knows , and that he does care about other people and doesn't want people to have to suffer so much.
If He is not fully enlightened to know the truth and then fully and willfully choosing to reject God and the truth, I don't believe a just God would condemn him to hell for all eternity.
Does this make it more clear? Any more questions?
Jesus would have No need to ' never give a command to Not judge at all ' because God's judgement on matters is already recorded in Scripture.
God's judgement on matters is the basis for judgement. For example: the human judges were to use God's judgement to judge between right and wrong -
- Psalms 82; Psalms 82:4-6; Psalms 82:7-8
Jesus stressed about having one's personal judgement on matters so as Not to be imputing wrong or bad motives to another.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
"Judge not" pretty much says it all -but you can pretend all you want. It's fun to pretend.
"Judge not" pretty much says it all -but you can pretend all you want. It's fun to pretend.
Didn't the human judges ( even referred to as gods ) of Psalms 82 use God's judgement to judge what was right and what was wrong ?
- Exodus 4:16; Exodus 7:1
So, it's Not all judgement but wrong to judge another's motives as being bad.
So, which belief systems do you believe are gonna cause a person to be banned from Paradise?
Happily read the Bible and put it down when it leads you to judge and condemn is my motto.
Buddha and Ghandi deserve more reward in the next life than myself imo...if that tells you the extent of my bigotry towards non Christians
I also like Richard Dawkins. He suffers much mockery yet is so intelligent, thoughtful, good with children and animals, mature, peaceful, and mild mannered...I respect his explanation of why I am simple minded and gullible. And He doesn't say I'll be tortured forever for my Dogmas
EDIT*** Yet so many say such awful things about him. When you point the finger you have three pointing back at you.
That is why Jesus said if you judge or condemn, judgement and condemnation descends upon you.
Jesus was Not taking about judging God's judgement, but one's personal judgement of another.
Yes, happily read the Bible and learn the words of Romans 6:7
Except for those of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6, Buddha, Ghandi, etc. will have a next life via the resurrection - Acts of the Apostles 24:15
As Romans 6:7 says the one who has died is freed or acquitted from sin. "Death" is the price tag that sin pays - Romans 6:23 - No post-mortem penalty.
Being freed or acquitted however does Not make a person as now innocent.
Just as a governor can pardon a person so the 'crime' charges do Not stick, Jesus can pardon a person so the 'sin' charges do Not stick.
When a person is acquitted of a crime can he be tried a second time for it, or punished a second time for it, No because that would be double jeopardy.
So, during Jesus' millennium-long resurrection day most people will be brought back to happy-and-healthy physical life on a beautiful paradisical earth as Eden was.
Mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on earth - Revelation 22:2 - and can gain healthy ' everlasting life on earth ' as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
God set up an excellent system of judges which Israel eventually rejected in favor of having a king, etc. -they judged all sorts of things. People came to them when they had conflicts of will or difficulty making decisions, and they made judgments which would ideally bring about the best outcome.
However, that's not to say they "judged" people while they were making judgments.
"Judge" has quite a few definitions.
It's not wrong to judge the distance between objects.
It's not wrong to judge the pros and cons of certain actions, choices, situations, etc.
It's not wrong to judge the righteousness of various thoughts and actions.
However, it is wrong to judge unrighteously -to make unrighteous decrees -to condemn another, etc.....
Even when punishments were administered in ancient Israel, the judgment was from God -and only administered by men.
A modern "judge", for example, might make a judgment which brings about the best outcome for all -or might judge unrighteously and condemn someone to some situation they do not truly deserve -condemn them as a "bad" person without truly knowing the heart or mind of the person -or create a situation which does not bring true justice and correct the situation as much as possible.
Last edited:
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I hope and pray you are correct! ((Hugsss))
I do hope this is true! Otherwise I hope God learns a lesson or two from you
McBell
Unbound
Again, context."Judge not" pretty much says it all -but you can pretend all you want. It's fun to pretend.
Jesus is saying that the standards by which you judge others is the same standard that will be used to judge you.
It is not a command.
It is a warning.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Now I am pretending that makes sense.
McBell
Unbound
Just add it to the other things you pretend about, I. E. the commandment to not judge....Now I am pretending that makes sense.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
You waited too long -lost its zing.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
What is the point of your religion then?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Since you're admitting that you have no idea whether you're right or wrong, why are you presenting any argument at all?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I do not claim to have a perfect knowledge; I do, however, have some very strong convictions. My religion means a lot to me and I strongly believe it is teachings are true, and holds the God-authority that I believe necessary to operate as Jesus Christ's Church. If, however, I were to die and were to discover that a completely different faith was the one God had hoped I'd find on earth, and if He would allow me to accept it at that time, you'd better believe that I'd be the first in line to convert. I want to get it right. I think we all do. I just happen to believe that God is a little more patient with our failings and short-sightedness than we are with ourselves. We're all walking in faith as opposed to a perfect knowledge and I believe we should respect that in others.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
...
These two paragraphs don't match. Was anyone on the thread even suggesting they had ''perfect knowledge'', of anything?
What's the relevance of your statements? They contradict and aren't contextually logical.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Do you
/believe in Hell
/what type of Hell
/Do you take your church's teachings as they are, or do you have your own interpretations of Scripture?
Last edited:
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I have an idea of truth and the best thing for myself, but if others find a better path, I should not judge them but pray for Gods will and follow the heart where the Holy Spirit dwells.
I've known too many amazing virtuous, humble, and charitable people of other faiths to preach that they must believe what I do.
But still am quick to share my beliefs without insisting they believe the same.