Physical Hell, Heaven and the Resurrection

[InvestigateTruth]

Those who believe in the Holy Books, how the idea of a physical punishment in Hell is reconcilable with the belief that God is kind?
How the idea of physical reward in Heaven is reconcilable with other part of your Holy Book? Consider, for example, in Quran wine is prohibited, but in Heaven, there is lots of Wines according to some verses of the Quran. And not to mention the Hoories.
If you say, these are symbolic, then how can you say resurrection is not symbolic?!

Edit: here some verses from Quran or Bible, about torturing unbelievers and the sinners:




Bible, Revelation 21:8 "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."


Quran 22:19 "These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water"

 

[Remté]

The wine in the Quran does not intoxicate. But the taste of wine is universally considered very agreeable which is why it is used there I suppose. There is also fresh water available.

Kindness can punish. God doesn't do so out of spite.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The wine in the Quran does not intoxicate. But the taste of wine is universally considered very agreeable which is why it is used there I suppose. There is also fresh water available.

Kindness can punish. God doesn't do so out of spite.

Quran states, there skin is burned again and again and grows back. They pour boiled water in their mouth. Is this kindness? How?

 

[Remté]

Quran states, there skin is burned again and again and grows back. They pour boiled water in their mouth. Is this kindness? How?

That as an act isn't kindness and nowhere does it say so. When I said kindness can punish I did not mean this, but that one can be kind and punish at the same time.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Those who believe in the Holy Books, how the idea of a physical punishment in Hell is reconcilable with the belief that God is kind?
How the idea of physical reward in Heaven is reconcilable with other part of your Holy Book? Consider, for example, in Quran wine is prohibited, but in Heaven, there is lots of Wines according to some verses of the Quran. And not mention the Hoories.
If you say, these are symbolic, then how can you say resurrection is not symbolic?!

Professing to believe in the Bible is one thing, but actually what we can learn from the Bible is another matter.
No physical or mental punishment in 'biblical hell' because 'biblical hell' is just the grave for the sleeping dead.
Often false clergy teach a religious-myth hell of punishment as being Scripture although Not Scripture.
Can anyone think of anyone righteous that went to hell on the day he died _______
The day righteous Jesus died he went to hell according to Acts of the Apostles 2:27
If the Bible's hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in hell.
Since Jesus taught ' sleep ' in death we know ' sleep ' is Not pain but rest in peace.- John 11:11-14
I find Jesus learned that 'sleeping condition about the dead' from the old Hebrew Scriptures:
Such as: Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Also, in Scripture we read that the Bible's hell (temporary grave) comes to a final end.
After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ' ( that means resurrected out of hell ) then emptied-out hell (grave) is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell according to Revelation 20:13-14.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Professing to believe in the Bible is one thing, but actually what we can learn from the Bible is another matter.
No physical or mental punishment in 'biblical hell' because 'biblical hell' is just the grave for the sleeping dead.
Often false clergy teach a religious-myth hell of punishment as being Scripture although Not Scripture.
Can anyone think of anyone righteous that went to hell on the day he died _______
The day righteous Jesus died he went to hell according to Acts of the Apostles 2:27
If the Bible's hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in hell.
Since Jesus taught ' sleep ' in death we know ' sleep ' is Not pain but rest in peace.- John 11:11-14
I find Jesus learned that 'sleeping condition about the dead' from the old Hebrew Scriptures:
Such as: Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Also, in Scripture we read that the Bible's hell (temporary grave) comes to a final end.
After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ' ( that means resurrected out of hell ) then emptied-out hell (grave) is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell according to Revelation 20:13-14.

What is the lake of sulphur? Is this literally or symbolic?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The wine in the Quran does not intoxicate. But the taste of wine is universally considered very agreeable which is why it is used there I suppose. There is also fresh water available.

Kindness can punish. God doesn't do so out of spite.

Oh, please. No one drinks wine just for the taste.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That as an act isn't kindness and nowhere does it say so. When I said kindness can punish I did not mean this, but that one can be kind and punish at the same time.

How the following verse of Quran is reconsilable with God being the most kind in Quran?

And afterward, lo! thereupon they have a drink of boiling water - 37:67

Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting place! - 18:29

 

[Forever_Catholic]

No physical or mental punishment in 'biblical hell' because 'biblical hell' is just the grave for the sleeping dead.
Often false clergy teach a religious-myth hell of punishment as being Scripture although Not Scripture.

There are many references to hell in scripture, and it is not a place to sleep. It is a place of everlasting suffering. And the smoke of their torments shall ascend up for ever and ever: neither have they rest day nor night... (Revelation 14:11)

 

[Remté]

How the following verse of Quran is reconsilable with God being the most kind in Quran?

And afterward, lo! thereupon they have a drink of boiling water - 37:67

Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting place! - 18:29

With the rest of the Quran.

 

[2ndpillar]

Those who believe in the Holy Books, how the idea of a physical punishment in Hell is reconcilable with the belief that God is kind?
How the idea of physical reward in Heaven is reconcilable with other part of your Holy Book? Consider, for example, in Quran wine is prohibited, but in Heaven, there is lots of Wines according to some verses of the Quran. And not to mention the Hoories.
If you say, these are symbolic, then how can you say resurrection is not symbolic?!

Edit: here some verses from Quran or Bible, about torturing unbelievers and the sinners:




Bible, Revelation 21:8 "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."


Quran 22:19 "These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water"

By the time most people die, they have lived their hell on earth, and are ready to have someone pull the plug. The second death of Revelation 20:14 is with respect to people being presented with the deeds of their life (Revelation 20:12-13), making them having to face up with their deeds, making a 2nd death probably preferable to having to live with those images. I am sure you would like to live with murderer, the sexually immoral, etc. for eternity, but the gun toting, bible thumping public would probably prefer a wall of fire for separation. I think you are confusing a God of "justice" and "righteousness", with the false god of the false prophet Paul. Yeshua's message was if the tree doesn't produce good fruit, cut it down and throw it into the fire. As for the self proclaimed prophets Mohammed and Paul, just look at the fruit their trees produced. (Matthew 7:15-21).

 

[2ndpillar]

There are many references to hell in scripture, and it is not a place to sleep. It is a place of everlasting suffering. And the smoke of their torments shall ascend up for ever and ever: neither have they rest day nor night... (Revelation 14:11)

The 2nd death of the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14-15) is a 2nd death, such as lights out. As for the "smoke" ascending up for ever and ever, well, "smoke" in a general sense, does not have feelings that I have observed. As for will they "rest", no, they are now apparently permanently dead. The "rest", such as you find in Daniel 12:13, the first death, is over. You are either like Daniel who will get his "allotted portion" or you will be like the Murderers, and immoral, etc. who will experience a 2nd death. As for Revelation 14:11, those who have the mark of the beast, that "beast" would be the Roman emperor Constantine, who instituted the Roman church, and by way of his "false prophet" Paul, a foundation stone of his church, he has "deceived" "those who dwell on the earth", and they have received his mark, will apparently experience that 2nd death. The only wise move for the followers of such a church, is "to come out of her" (Revelation 18:4) & (Zechariah 2:7). The alternative is to support a church with a history of burning people alive, laundering mafia money, taking from widows, and giving no protection to children from predators. Hell would be Sheol, the pit, the grave. The "hell" is on earth, is widely caused by institutions of men, presented as institutions of God. The "lake of fire" is not "hell"/sheol/the pit/the grave. It is the "2nd death" (Revelation 20:13-14).

 

[Deeje]

Those who believe in the Holy Books, how the idea of a physical punishment in Hell is reconcilable with the belief that God is kind?

There is no such place in the Bible as Christendom's hell. One has to be alive in order to be punished....the Bible says that the dead are actually dead. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10)

How the idea of physical reward in Heaven is reconcilable with other part of your Holy Book?

God never intended for humans to live anywhere but here on earth. It was Adam's sin that caused a separation of humankind from their Creator. God took steps to make reconciliation possible through the sacrifice of his son, paying the debt that Adam left for his children. (Romans 5:12)

He purposed for a Kingdom that would lead redeemed humanity back to God. It will be headed by its appointed King, Jesus Christ and those chosen to rule with him in that Kingdom. Only these will go to heaven and become rulers and priests for God for the thousand years that it will rule mankind. (Revelation 20:6)

Edit: here some verses from Quran or Bible, about torturing unbelievers and the sinners:

Bible, Revelation 21:8 "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

I can't speak for the Quran but the Bible verse you quoted needs addressing.....

The "lake of fire" in Revelation is the same as "Gehenna" where Jesus said that the Pharisees would end up.
Certain verses that speak of "gehenna" are erroneously translated "hell" along with "hades", yet neither word in their original meaning means a place of conscious torment after death.

The "lake of fire" is "the second death"...not another kind of life.

Jesus said to "fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna." (Matthew 10:28)
Souls are "destroyed" in Gehenna.....not tormented.

"Gehenna" refers to the Valley of Hinnom where apostate Jews once sacrificed their children to the pagan god Molech. Jehovah put a stop to it and turned the valley into the city's garbage dump where the refuse and carcasses of dead animals were burned up in a fire that never went out. It was kept alight day and night by the addition of sulfur. Sometimes the bodies of executed criminals were thrown into gehenna for disposal. Nothing alive was ever cast there. What the flames missed, the maggots finished off.

To Jews, a person without a memorial tomb was considered unworthy of a resurrection because they would not be remembered by God. So the worst that can happen to a person after death is that they stay dead....forever. Everlasting life is contrasted with everlasting death in the Bible. Hell is simply the grave where the human dead sleep, awaiting a physical resurrection, just like Jesus' friend Lazarus. (John 11:11-14; John 5:28-29)

God has no need to keep the wicked in existence. He will simply leave them in death.....as if they never existed.

 

[2ndpillar]

There is no such place in the Bible as Christendom's hell. One has to be alive in order to be punished....the Bible says that the dead are actually dead. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10)

Well, the dead are actually dead, generally buried or otherwise cremated, or eaten by carrion, you still come across double minded, as God is the same today as He was yesterday, and his Word has not been made "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13), nor is anyone going to go straight from "corruptible" to "incorruptible", in a "twinkling of an eye" , for "everyone shall die for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30). You can't make God's Word "obsolete" in one breath, and make it your foundation in another, without appearing double minded.

King James Bible James 1:8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

[ChristineM]

Oh, please. No one drinks wine just for the taste.

I do. Just one or two sips at a meal. Always a good wine, the cheap plonk is no better than vinegar.

 

[ChristineM]

Much of the 'christian' visions of hell comes from Dante's Inferno and the painting of Hieronymus Bosch.

There is actually very little in the bible describing hell. Perhaps authors and artists of the middle ages had a more vivid imagination than the bible authors

 

[1213]

Those who believe in the Holy Books, how the idea of a physical punishment in Hell is reconcilable with the belief that God is kind?

Hell is eternal separation from God. Those who hate God, get what they want. If they would live in hell eternally, they would make it eternal suffering by themselves. However, Bible tells soul and body are destroyed in hell. That is why I think no one suffers in hell eternally.


And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

 

[ChristineM]

Hell is eternal separation from God. Those who hate God, get what they want. If they would live in hell eternally, they would make it eternal suffering by themselves. However, Bible tells soul and body are destroyed in hell. That is why I think no one suffers in hell eternally.


And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

How about those who hate harry potter?

 

[2ndpillar]

I do. Just one or two sips at a meal. Always a good wine, the cheap plonk is no better than vinegar.

Hey, I love vinegar. Wine, not so much. I do like watered down grape juice. What is good is the vinegar solution used in bread and butter pickles. Much better than the best of wines.

 

[2ndpillar]

How about those who hate harry potter?

Has Harry been raised from the dead? I haven't heard much about the lad lately. I really don't get the attraction from adults, or kids either, but since I am not a kid, I am just out of touch what kids do except play on their cell phones, even the small kids.