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Ping-ting comes for fire.

godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Ping-ting comes for fire

Fa-yen asked the monk Hsüan-tzu why he had never asked him any questions about Zen. The monk explained that he had already attained his understanding from another master. Pressed by Fa-yen for an explanation, the monk said that when he had asked his teacher, “What is the meaning of Buddhism?” he had received the answer, “Ping-ting comes for fire!”

"A good answer!" said Fa-yen. "But I’m sure you don’t understand it."

"Ping-ting," explained the monk, "is the god of fire. For him to be seeking for fire is like myself, seeking the Buddha. I’m the Buddha already, and no asking is needed."

"Just as I thought!" laughed Fa-yen. "You didn’t get it."

The monk said, “Well, how would you answer?”

"Go ahead, ask me." said Fa-yen.

"What is the meaning of Buddhism?" inquired the monk.

"Ping-ting comes for fire!"
*****

Anyone?
 
crossfire

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Adittapariyaya Sutta: The Fire Sermon

Mind is likened to fire--burning with sensory information and fabrications of consciousness. You want to go beyond sensory consciousness and conceptual consciousness, and be able to discern between that with has been fabricated (burning fire) and that which has not been fabricated. Then you want to ferret out the fabrications one after another... Anupada Sutta: One After Another
...until the burning fire has been extinguished (nibbana) You are the only one who can do this for yourself--you are the master of fire--Ping-Ting!

Any words or conceptual representations are fabrications--fire, so the description of Buddhism sought by the inquirer is also just a burning fabrication--so you are Ping-Ting coming for fire.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
crossfire said:
Adittapariyaya Sutta: The Fire Sermon

Mind is likened to fire--burning with sensory information and fabrications of consciousness. You want to go beyond sensory consciousness and conceptual consciousness, and be able to discern between that with has been fabricated (burning fire) and that which has not been fabricated. Then you want to ferret out the fabrications one after another... Anupada Sutta: One After Another
...until the burning fire has been extinguished (nibbana) You are the only one who can do this for yourself--you are the master of fire--Ping-Ting!

Any words or conceptual representations are fabrications--fire, so the description of Buddhism sought by the inquirer is also just a burning fabrication--so you are Ping-Ting coming for fire.
Click to expand...

But the question is: 'What is the meaning of Buddhism?', not
'what is the meaning of seeking the meaning of Buddhism'.
 
V

von bek

Well-Known Member
A koan is not meant to be debated by rational discourse. If you seek another's opinion on what the right answer is, you will always be wrong. If you repeat the answer of another person, you are wrong even if they are right...
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
von bek said:
A koan is not meant to be debated by rational discourse. If you seek another's opinion on what the right answer is, you will always be wrong. If you repeat the answer of another person, you are wrong even if they are right...
Click to expand...

Good points. A koan only points to reality in silence. The question here is: what is the reality that 'Ping-ting comes for fire' points to?
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
von bek said:
A koan is not meant to be debated by rational discourse. If you seek another's opinion on what the right answer is, you will always be wrong. If you repeat the answer of another person, you are wrong even if they are right...
Click to expand...

Strictly speaking, your are correct. However, in reading the initial dialogue, we see that Fa-yen had to probe a bit to find out that Hsüan-tzu actually failed to understand the koan, though he thought he did. We need to learn to balance the intuitive mind with the intellectual mind.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
crossfire said:
Indeed
Click to expand...

Neti neti was not the response. Not this, not that is a feature of Hinduism, and also true of Buddhism, but the question is: What is the meaning of Buddhism?, meaning, 'what is the flavor of Buddhism?' A Buddhistic, especially Zen, response has a particular character to it, such as:

Spring comes, and the grass grows by itself
 
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