Please help me Muslims

[-Peacemaker-]

I'm confused about the Quran. I've read verses that claim that the Bible has been corrupted but I've never seen verses that clarify WHERE the Bible has been corrupted. I understand that Muslims believe in the Psalms, Torah and Gospels. Where in those books do Muslims believe corruption has taken place?

 

[Muffled]

I'm confused about the Quran. I've read verses that claim that the Bible has been corrupted but I've never seen verses that clarify WHERE the Bible has been corrupted. I understand that Muslims believe in the Psalms, Torah and Gospels. Where in those books do Muslims believe corruption has taken place?

The Qu'ran does not specifically say that the Bible ws corrupted. It said things were changed but it didn't say whether that was temporary, customary or permanent. In fact saying the Bible has been changed is actually a change to the Qu'ran since that information isn't in there.

 

[Cordoba]

Thank you for your question, JungleJ

This answer by a specialized scholar to a similar question gives a few hints:

Scriptures of People of the Book - Interfaith Issues - counsels - OnIslam.net

 

[gnostic]

I'm confused about the Quran. I've read verses that claim that the Bible has been corrupted but I've never seen verses that clarify WHERE the Bible has been corrupted. I understand that Muslims believe in the Psalms, Torah and Gospels. Where in those books do Muslims believe corruption has taken place?

I have asked the same question and got no good answers from anyone.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

See this video, it answers the OP question in detail

[youtube]C90xDaZBv7Q[/youtube]
The Great Debate: Qur'an or the Bible Which is God's word? ( Shabir's Opening Statement - 2 of 4 ) - YouTube

 

[Mark2020]

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/120014-where-does-koran-say-bible-has.html

 

[islam abduallah]

I'm confused about the Quran. I've read verses that claim that the Bible has been corrupted but I've never seen verses that clarify WHERE the Bible has been corrupted. I understand that Muslims believe in the Psalms, Torah and Gospels. Where in those books do Muslims believe corruption has taken place?

yes the quran is confirming that Allah had provided the prophets with some books like the Torah to moses, gospel to the jesus and the quran to mohamed peace to be upon all

so we believe that allah had sent them but also we believe that a corruption takes place in those books by the Jews, so that Allah sent Mohamed by the quran and he promised to keep it from distortion and corruption
about where the quran said those books were corrupted
"Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?And when they meet those who believe, they say, "We have believed"; but when they are alone with one another, they say, "Do you talk to them about what Allah has revealed to you so they can argue with you about it before your Lord?" Then will you not reason?, But do they not know that Allah knows what they conceal and what they declare?, And among them are unlettered ones who do not know the Scripture except in wishful thinking, but they are only assuming, So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn"
did i answer your questions or i missed any?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

yes the quran is confirming that Allah had provided the prophets with some books like the Torah to moses, gospel to the jesus and the quran to mohamed peace to be upon all

so we believe that allah had sent them but also we believe that a corruption takes place in those books by the Jews, so that Allah sent Mohamed by the quran and he promised to keep it from distortion and corruption
about where the quran said those books were corrupted
"Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?And when they meet those who believe, they say, "We have believed"; but when they are alone with one another, they say, "Do you talk to them about what Allah has revealed to you so they can argue with you about it before your Lord?" Then will you not reason?, But do they not know that Allah knows what they conceal and what they declare?, And among them are unlettered ones who do not know the Scripture except in wishful thinking, but they are only assuming, So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn"
did i answer your questions or i missed any?

I understand already that the Torah is believed to be corrupted. I want to know which parts of it are corrupted or do Muslims believe the entire Torah , Psalms, and Gospels have been corrupted so badly that they are left completely usable because there are no trustworthy parts left in them? If that's the case why does Mohammed, peace be upon him, encourage Muslims to read it?

 

[khanyy]

re 1

"Junglej25"

"Where in those books do Muslims believe corruption has taken place?"

In the Gospel/Torah the verses that were/have been omitted were reproduced in the Quran thus if you read a passage that states something wrong in the previous scripture the following verses usually have the correction.

Salaam

 

[-Peacemaker-]

re 1

"Junglej25"

"Where in those books do Muslims believe corruption has taken place?"

In the Gospel/Torah the verses that were/have been omitted were reproduced in the Quran thus if you read a passage that states something wrong in the previous scripture the following verses usually have the correction.

Salaam

Can you illustrate your point with examples?

 

[islam abduallah]

I understand already that the Torah is believed to be corrupted. I want to know which parts of it are corrupted or do Muslims believe the entire Torah , Psalms, and Gospels have been corrupted so badly that they are left completely usable because there are no trustworthy parts left in them? If that's the case why does Mohammed, peace be upon him, encourage Muslims to read it?

prophet Mohamed didn't encourage people to read it, at the first he prevented that, till the people's faith become strong and they learnt Islam well, so he allowed them to read them

Quran didn't specify exactly which parts were corrupted and which not?, it left that to us, and it's easily to find that, for example when i read john 17 i find it very spiritual and it puts tears on my eyes, i can say that this part could be a word of god, it seems that it's not corrupted, on the other hand if i read a verse talk about the divinity of Jesus or that he's a begotten son of the god i got obligation here, and you can find many immoral texts in the OT which we consider it as a pure corruption

 

[-Peacemaker-]

prophet Mohamed didn't encourage people to read it, at the first he prevented that, till the people's faith become strong and they learnt Islam well, so he allowed them to read them

Quran didn't specify exactly which parts were corrupted and which not?, it left that to us, and it's easily to find that, for example when i read john 17 i find it very spiritual and it puts tears on my eyes, i can say that this part could be a word of god, it seems that it's not corrupted, on the other hand if i read a verse talk about the divinity of Jesus or that he's a begotten son of the god i got obligation here, and you can find many immoral texts in the OT which we consider it as a pure corruption

In other words, the test used to discern whether a Scripture had been corrupted is the "does it make me emotional" test?

 

[gnostic]

Unless the Qur'an, Muhummad or Allah can produce complete corrected Torah, prophets' books, gospels, or letters IN THEIR ENTIRETY, then the Qur'an is not reliable sources for correction.

Honestly, the so-called corruption of the Bible/Torah/Tanakh claims only sound like propaganda, and nothing more than propaganda. If Muslims or Muhummad want to make such claim then there need to be a complete and revised copy of each individual book or letter (found in the Tanakh or the NT Bible), and not some flimsy handful of passages.

And secondly, the revised Islamic versions need to be written in either Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek so they can be compared to the native language of each Judaeo-Christian text.

That's the only way to verify that Corruptions have taken place.

 

[khanyy]

Can you illustrate your point with examples?

Yes i can, but it would be better if i didnt spoon feed you like you are a child no?


[Pickthal 6:146] Unto those who are Jews We forbade every animal with claws. And of the oxen and the sheep forbade We unto them the fat thereof save that upon the backs or the entrails, or that which is mixed with the bone. That we awarded them for their rebellion. And lo! we verily are truthful.

Now as i understand SOME jews dont eat camel/hares etc (especially those who were in Arabia) as can be seen in the above sentence there isnt any mention of them being banned in the Torah.


[Pickthal 4:157] And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.

Dont really need to comment on this one

[Pickthal 4:153] The people of the Scripture ask of thee that thou shouldst cause an (actual) Book to descend upon them from heaven. They asked a greater thing of Moses aforetime, for they said: Show us Allah plainly. The storm of lightning seized them for their wickedness. Then (even) after that) they chose the calf (for worship) after clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) had come unto them. And We forgave them that! And We bestowed on Moses evident authority.

I include this as a testament of how Jews and Christians have changed over the years...NOT. I mean you ask for the same dribble now as they did then.

Salaam

 

[islam abduallah]

In other words, the test used to discern whether a Scripture had been corrupted is the "does it make me emotional" test?

yes, you can say that the test could be used to judge the credibility of the verse

if i understand your question well, the answer is No, "does it make me emotional" isn't a right test to judge a text

 

[gnostic]

Quran didn't specify exactly which parts were corrupted and which not?,

If that's true, then you can't really say for sure what is corrupted. You can guess, speculate and interpret what it say in either the Tanakh or the Bible.

The Muslim's view is different to that of the Jew's or Christian's, hence will always have interpretations to that of Jews and Christians. It doesn't mean that the Jew's or Christian's view are wrong, or either of their scriptures are corrupted.

As you've say you said yourself:

it left that to us, and it's easily to find that

It is left to you to figure it out yourself, so it is YOUR INTERPRETATION, as to everyone else's interpretation.

And if the Qur'an don't tell which parts are corrupted, then you can never be sure, because you will always on your view. That's all.

It is not based on Allah, because as you have said, the Qur'an doesn't state which parts were corrupted. Also saying that Allah was author of the Qur'an, to be nothing more than propaganda by Muhammad and his followers. There is no validity and evidences in such claims about Allah's authorship, except through deception and through faith. There are no more evidences that Muhammad receive the Qur'an through Gabriel than that Joseph Smith receiving the Book of Mormons from the angel Moroni.

In my view, it is the Qur'an that have corrupted the events that are found in the Tanakh or Bible. Such as the Fall of Satan or the Solomon's ability to talk to animals or control djinns; something that not found in Genesis or 1 Kings.

Then there is Abraham's near sacrifice of his son. In all versions, it is Isaac, not Ishmael, who was on the altar. Only the Qur'an say the sacrificial victim was Qur'an. Unless you have further literary evidences to support the Qur'an version, then it is the Qur'an that have corrupted this particular episode.

 

[islam abduallah]

If that's true, then you can't really say for sure what is corrupted. You can guess, speculate and interpret what it say in either the Tanakh or the Bible.

not guess but sure

It is left to you to figure it out yourself, so it is YOUR INTERPRETATION, as to everyone else's interpretation.

And if the Qur'an don't tell which parts are corrupted, then you can never be sure, because you will always on your view. That's all.

you got my words wrong, when i said that Quran didn't mention what's exactly corrupted i meant that it doesn't say that luke 1 verse 2 is corrupted and the correction of it is ....

what the quran did is that it clears what's in the bible

for example

the bible is talking about the death of Jesus, Quran said that the Jesus wasn't killed by Jews and the god secured him and raise up him in the heaven and he's still a live and he would return to the earth again, that would lead automatically to be sure ( as a muslims believe that the quran is the word of god) that all the biblical verse talking about the death and the murdering of the jesus on the cross are corrupted verses

another example, Quran said that the Jesus is a human like me and you but he's a prophet and he has special born without father, and the god isn't his father so he's not the son of god,

so any verse in the bible contradict with that meaning we consider it as a corrupted verse and we are sure of that

third example, the quran commend king David peace up on him and considers him as a prophet and he was a too good person, so any OT verse said that he sent his soljers to be killed in the war to marry their wives consider as a corrupted verse,

do you still have confusion about that?

Also saying that Allah was author of the Qur'an, to be nothing more than propaganda by Muhammad and his followers. There is no validity and evidences in such claims about Allah's authorship, except through deception and through faith. There are no more evidences that Muhammad receive the Qur'an through Gabriel than that Joseph Smith receiving the Book of Mormons from the angel Moroni.

In my view, it is the Qur'an that have corrupted the events that are found in the Tanakh or Bible. Such as the Fall of Satan or the Solomon's ability to talk to animals or control djinns; something that not found in Genesis or 1 Kings.

Then there is Abraham's near sacrifice of his son. In all versions, it is Isaac, not Ishmael, who was on the altar. Only the Qur'an say the sacrificial victim was Qur'an. Unless you have further literary evidences to support the Qur'an version, then it is the Qur'an that have corrupted this particular episode.

this should be in another thread, what's your opinion to post a new thread "is the quran the word of god or it's Mohamed and his follower's deception"

i think this would be better

 

[Muffled]

prophet Mohamed didn't encourage people to read it, at the first he prevented that, till the people's faith become strong and they learnt Islam well, so he allowed them to read them

Quran didn't specify exactly which parts were corrupted and which not?, it left that to us, and it's easily to find that, for example when i read john 17 i find it very spiritual and it puts tears on my eyes, i can say that this part could be a word of god, it seems that it's not corrupted, on the other hand if i read a verse talk about the divinity of Jesus or that he's a begotten son of the god i got obligation here, and you can find many immoral texts in the OT which we consider it as a pure corruption

So in other words you can just pick and choose which parts of the Bible you like and which parts you don't. In doing so you have corrupted your reading of the Bible and your understanding of it. Certainly God did not say this in vain because it seems to be the normal sinful condition of man.

 

[Muffled]

yes, you can say that the test could be used to judge the credibility of the verse

if i understand your question well, the answer is No, "does it make me emotional" isn't a right test to judge a text

My test for the Qu'ran could be that it is corrupted because it doesn't agree with the Bible. It isn't a good test for veracity in either case because it comes with an a priori bias.

 

[gnostic]

this should be in another thread, what's your opinion to post a new thread "is the quran the word of god or it's Mohamed and his follower's deception"

i think this would be better

You didn't say anything about the Fall of Satan (Iblis or Shaitan) in Qur'an 7 that is not found in Genesis.

Or that of Solomon's speaking to birds (Qur'an 27:16-17, 27:20) or ants (Qur'an 27) or commanding host of djinns (Qur'an 27:17; 34:12) or controlling weather or winds (Qur'an 21:81; 34:12; 38:36). None of which are not found anywhere in 1 Kings 1-11.

As I have said, fairytale and fable are found in the Qur'an.