Poland: Abortion ruling and mass protests

[Yerda]

Poland abortion ruling: Protesters block roads across country

Thousands of people have blocked roads across Poland on the fifth consecutive day of protests against a court's near-total ban on abortion.

In the capital Warsaw, protesters blocked the main intersections, stopping cars and trams for about an hour.

Some carried placards with slogans like "I wish I could abort my government".

The protests are considered unusual in a country where the Roman Catholic Church has great influence.

They follow a ruling by Poland's Constitutional Court that abortions, even in cases of foetal defects, are illegal.

It means abortion is now only valid in cases of rape or incest, or to protect the mother's life.

The populist right continues its global mission to ruin everything for everyone.

Is this a glimpse of America's future given the recent Supreme Court appointment?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Poland abortion ruling: Protesters block roads across country

The populist right continues its global mission to ruin everything for everyone.

Is this a glimpse of America's future given the recent Supreme Court Appointment?

I wonder if that will be taken to the European court of human rights?
or the European court of justice, as that over rides any European countries own courts.

 

[exchemist]

Poland abortion ruling: Protesters block roads across country

The populist right continues its global mission to ruin everything for everyone.

Is this a glimpse of America's future given the recent Supreme Court appointment?

I rather doubt it.

From what I read, it is quite unlikely that the US Supreme Court will try to turn the clock back entirely and even if they did there would, apparently, be a maze of state laws that would dilute its effects. Judges, whatever their personal politics, are not politicians. The whole discipline of being a judge is to set aside personal agendas and look at the law. They will I'm sure also be aware that making perverse judgements will risk bringing the court into disrepute.

I expect the composition of the court will put the brakes on further modernising, constructive interpretations of the Constitution, but turning the clock back would be another thing.

 

[Mindmaster]

Poland abortion ruling: Protesters block roads across country

The populist right continues its global mission to ruin everything for everyone.

Is this a glimpse of America's future given the recent Supreme Court appointment?

No, on that note. As much as liberals would like to get into a tizzy about anything Amy Coney Barrett is a pretty moderate and highly qualified person. Even the left didn't try to come at her on anything of substance, as they would have been truly destroyed in the press, lol. They spent their time groveling about non-substantial issues like her religion and stance on abortion. (Hint: One pro-life justice isn't going to tip the scale.)

Anyway, I'm kind of with Poland on this because abortion is a ghastly practice. It's not like we don't make contraception, and if you're old enough to do the deeds you're old enough to not act like an idiot when you do. Please tell me a good reason that most sexually mature and fertile women aren't on birth control in the first place... (Other than actually having the intent to have children.) Personally, I think if you are in the position of needing the abortion outside of life-threatening situation it's mostly that you're in that 'idiot' club and society shouldn't accommodate you. It's usually a complete lack of personal responsibility that creates that need and we shouldn't be dealing with it at that level, but rather from the top.

Poland's law makes sense to me: No abortions ever unless it's the result of a criminal act, or the mother's life is threatened. In fact, I'd consider it ideal.

 

[Rival]

I certainly hope the EU court doesn't start sticking its nose in Poland's affairs. It's a well known conservative country and power to it for sticking to its guns.

 

[pearl]

Is this a glimpse of America's future given the recent Supreme Court appointment?

That was/is the intent. I found it interesting that Barret chose Justice Thomas to swear her in.

 

[Mindmaster]

I certainly hope the EU court doesn't start sticking its nose in Poland's affairs. It's a well known conservative country and power to it for sticking to its guns.

To me it's not even a liberal or conservative issue really... The need for abortions is mostly the result of people acting like fools. You're clearly explained somewhere about age 10 (maybe less) that men and women doing sex make kids. You're certainly educated by age 13 on what condoms and birth control are here. There is simply no excuse, none, zero.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

To me it's not even a liberal or conservative issue really... The need for abortions is mostly the result of people acting like fools. You're clearly explained somewhere about age 10 (maybe less) that men and women doing sex make kids. You're certainly educated by age 13 on what condoms and birth control are here. There is simply no excuse, none, zero.

Are you fully across the situation in Poland?
They already had strict laws in place. There are a little over 1000 legal abortions conducted per year. 98% are due to foetal defects.

Still backing this law on the grounds that people shouldn't be stupid?

This is ALL about a conservative, religious view of the world. The leader of their ruling right-wing party said the following in 2016;

“We will strive to ensure that even cases of very difficult pregnancies, when the child is certain to die, very deformed, still end up in a birth, so that the child can be baptized, buried, have a name.”

He's now made that happen. Doesn't sound like a step forward to me.

 

[Revoltingest]

To me it's not even a liberal or conservative issue really... The need for abortions is mostly the result of people acting like fools. You're clearly explained somewhere about age 10 (maybe less) that men and women doing sex make kids. You're certainly educated by age 13 on what condoms and birth control are here. There is simply no excuse, none, zero.

If people weren't foolish, & pregnancies still occurred, would abortion then be OK?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The whole discipline of being a judge is to set aside personal agendas and look at the law.

And how has that worked out, particularly for people of color?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I certainly hope the EU court doesn't start sticking its nose in Poland's affairs. It's a well known conservative country and power to it for sticking to its guns.

Be careful what you ask for.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I certainly hope the EU court doesn't start sticking its nose in Poland's affairs. It's a well known conservative country and power to it for sticking to its guns.

I certainly hope that the EU does stick its nose in.

For the sake of the 100s of thousands of young women who now have to resort to illegal abortions in uncontrolled underground circumstances, with all the dangers that that entails.


This religious bullying of the population has no place in a 21st century Europe.

 

[exchemist]

And how has that worked out, particularly for people of color?

I'm not sure what that means. If it is a way of saying the Supreme Court is racially prejudiced, you'll have to refer me to some recent decisions that show that to be the case. Or if it means something else, you'll have to spell it out for me, I'm afraid.

 

[Altfish]

I certainly hope the EU court doesn't start sticking its nose in Poland's affairs. It's a well known conservative country and power to it for sticking to its guns.

Despite it being against the will of the people.
Changes pushed through by men that predominately affect women.

 

[Rival]

I certainly hope that the EU does stick its nose in.

For the sake of the 100s of thousands of young women who now have to resort to illegal abortions in uncontrolled underground circumstances, with all the dangers that that entails.


This religious bullying of the population has no place in a 21st century Europe.

Regardless, I don't support the EU lording it over individual countries and their right to self-determination. If this is what Polish lawmakers have decided, let the Poles deal with it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

To me it's not even a liberal or conservative issue really... The need for abortions is mostly the result of people acting like fools.

Please.
Have a small dose of reality. The new ruling has NOTHING to do with people's behaviour and everything with no longer being able to abort a pregnancy when it concerns known fetal defects.

You're clearly explained somewhere about age 10 (maybe less) that men and women doing sex make kids. You're certainly educated by age 13 on what condoms and birth control are here.

That is likely true for countries like Poland. Not so much for countries like the filipines, where they are told that condoms are "from the devil".

There is simply no excuse, none, zero.

Please learn about what is actually the case in Poland at the moment.
You seem extremely malinformed and just jumping on the "pro-life" wagon through some kind of herd mentality without even knowing the specifics.

 

[exchemist]

Regardless, I don't support the EU lording it over individual countries and their right to self-determination. If this is what Polish lawmakers have decided, let the Poles deal with it.

There's no "lording it" involved.

EU member states signed up to judicial oversight by the European Court of Justice when they signed the treaty under which they joined the Union.

If an action is brought in the European Court of Human Rights, that is another court set up by the Council of Europe, not the EU. Poland is a member of the Council of Europe, as well as the EU, so the findings of that court are also binding on Poland.

 

[Rival]

There's no "lording it" involved.

EU member states signed up to judicial oversight by the European Court of Justice when they signed the treaty under which they joined the Union.

If an action is brought in the European Court of Human Rights, that is another court set up by the Council of Europe, not the EU. Poland is a member of the Council of Europe, as well as the EU, so the findings of that court are also binding on Poland.

I just disagree with this whole set up. I believe it takes too much power away from national governments.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Regardless, I don't support the EU lording it over individual countries and their right to self-determination. If this is what Polish lawmakers have decided, let the Poles deal with it.

It doesn't, and shouldn't, work that way. EU nations are bound by EU laws and regulations.
It's what the whole "union" part stands for.

When you are part of a larger union, then you can't just do whatever you want.
Instead, you can only do what you want within the boundaries set out by that union.

And this, it seems to me, is a clear breach of secular humanism.

 

[Rival]

It doesn't, and shouldn't, work that way. EU nations are bound by EU laws and regulations.
It's what the whole "union" part stands for.

I don't support the idea of a federal Europe in any sense. No entity should have rights over another nation's government. That's an empire.