Poll: Can people with opposing beliefs be good friends and do good together?

[Jim]

@LuisDantas What I’m getting at is something I think you might agree with, if I can ever find a way to explain it clearly enough. It isn’t about relationships between groups or categories or communities of people. It’s about relationships between individuals. Imagine some people working together to pile up sandbags to stop a river from flooding an area. Can you believe that one of them is a Muslim whose leaders are promoting anti-Christian propaganda, shoulder to shoulder with a Christian whose leaders are promoting anti-Muslim propaganda?

To better explain what I’m trying to say, I need an example of some kind of continuing community service that is not stigmatized by any religious or anti-religious faction, where a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew and an atheist might be working side by side. Maybe like services to homeless people, or a medical clinic, for example.

 

[LuisDantas]

Sure, that makes a lot of sense and is entirely believable.

 

[Notanumber]

Except they have, and during Islam's Golden age Jews and Christians were welcomed and allowed to practice their religion.

Jews and Christians were Dhimmis during that period. My fate would have been even worse being an Atheist.

 

[Jim]

@LuisDantas Let's say a medical clinic. There might be better examples, but as long as you agree that it's possible in some circumstances, we can hypothesize with that. To simplify, I'll say a Muslim and a Christian, known to each other as such, working side by side in a medical clinic, and becoming close friends and companions in the process. You might think that the friendship can't endure without some change in beliefs, and you might be right. However that may be, the point is that enduring friendships between Muslims and Christians are happening that way.

There are people who are trying to build friendships that way with people whose belief systems are opposed to theirs. I'm one of them. I'm not talking about Baha'is. Not all Baha'is are doing it, and it isn't only Baha'is. There's a growing and spreading movement of people building friendships and working side by side in service to others, across the widest ideological divides, ignoring faction lines, without anyone trying to change anyone else's beliefs. The people who are doing it and seeing it happen are loving it. I think that movement will continue to grow and spread, and will eventually overpower factional interests, from the inside out. Not without opposition from factional interests of course, but it will happen. Anyone who wants to can find some way to be part of that movement.

 

[LuisDantas]

@LuisDantas Let's say a medical clinic. There might be better examples, but as long as you agree that it's possible in some circumstances, we can hypothesize with that. To simplify, I'll say a Muslim and a Christian, known to each other as such, working side by side in a medical clinic, and becoming close friends and companions in the process. You might think that the friendship can't endure without some change in beliefs, and you might be right. However that may be, the point is that enduring friendships between Muslims and Christians are happening that way.

Sure.

There are people who are trying to build friendships that way with people whose belief systems are opposed to theirs. I'm one of them. I'm not talking about Baha'is. Not all Baha'is are doing it, and it isn't only Baha'is. There's a growing and spreading movement of people building friendships and working side by side in service to others, across the widest ideological divides, ignoring faction lines, without anyone trying to change anyone else's beliefs. The people who are doing it and seeing it happen are loving it. I think that movement will continue to grow and spread, and will eventually overpower factional interests, from the inside out. Not without opposition from factional interests of course, but it will happen. Anyone who wants to can find some way to be part of that movement.

Definitely. I agree with every word that you say here.

 

[Shad]

I disagree with "Anyone who wants to can be part of that movement, whenever they want to." Extremists groups especially ones prone to violence do not work well with others as equals and without a power dynamic in the extremist favour. Be it politics or religion. Take your pick.

 

[Jim]

Definitely. I agree with every word that you say here.

Good. From our previous conversations, I had a feeling you might.

 

[LuisDantas]

I disagree with "Anyone who wants to can be part of that movement, whenever they want to." Extremists groups especially ones prone to violence do not work well with others as equals and without a power dynamic in the extremist favour. Be it politics or religion. Take your pick.

Sure, but doesn't that mean that those people do not want to take part?

 

[Shad]

Sure, but doesn't that mean that those people do not want to take part?

Said movement, in my mind, would requires extremists to change their mind set accordingly thus would no longer be extremists. I would add that sincerity matters.

Do not confuse extremist for fundamentalist. By extremist I mean Westboro and ISIS types. Groups/individual with divisive ideologies making them incapable of working with ideological enemies for any reason.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

@Jim , whilst I whole-heartedly agree with what I think your general thrust is, I disagreed with several points in the poll.

1) Opposing beliefs might have some difficulty, depending on what they are. Different beliefs, however, are perfectly fine. I have close Christian friends who think all sorts of different things to me, including that there is a God. However, a lot of their fundamental beliefs about people are compatible with mine, if not the same.
2) Everyone knows this - I wish!
3) Everyone knows how to do it - Nope. I don't get why it's so hard, but some people seem to need to be 'right' rather than just work together and put aside differences. It can be learnt, though.
4) That makes a world of peace, justice and prosperity for all people inevitable - This is the one that scared me a little. 'Inevitable' is (imho) a nonsense. Peace, justice and prosperity for all are ideals we should be forever working towards, not goals we reach. And moving towards them takes hard work and sacrifice, which by definition means they are far from inevitable.

Just my opinion.

 

[blü 2]

Skeptics and truth-tellers, bring it on!

Depends on how much time they spend in actually opposing anyone's views.

I have close friends and fave relatives who are believers, and that works because the subject of religion almost never arises in our discussions.

That situation would be unimaginable with evangelicals.

 

[Jim]

@Nowhere Man @wellwisher @Altfish @HonestJoe @Vinayaka @Revoltingest @Unveiled Artist @Epic Beard Man @LuisDantas @Shadow Wolf @Notanumber @Shad @lewisnotmiller @blü 2

I see that my first point might easily be misunderstood. I’m not thinking that any two people today, chosen randomly, can become close friends and work side by side. What I’m thinking is that it sometimes happens that two people whose belief systems are as incompatible and opposed to each other as possible, become close friends and companions, working side by side in service to others. It might be in a medical clinic or a food bank for example. To simplify, I'll say for example that a Quran revering Muslim and a Bible revering Christian, known to each other as such, could be working side by side in a medical clinic, neighborhood center, or some other neighborhood community service, and become close friends and companions in the process. Enduring friendships between people endorsing the most incompatible belief systems are happening that way. I think that everyone knows that, and if they ever wanted to be in a friendship like that, they would know what to do. Obviously most people today aren’t interested in doing that, or they have other priorities. What I’m saying is that it does happen sometimes, everyone knows that it happens sometimes, and if they ever wanted to practice it, they would know what to do.

I might be wrong about everyone knowing that it happens and how to do it. However that may be, there’s a growing and spreading movement of people becoming close friends and companions across the widest ideological divides, working side by side in service to others. Their stories are being told, and multiplying. The more desperately and violently that factional interests try to stop that from happening, the faster it will grow and spread.

Sooner or later it will be common knowledge that companionship and collaboration across the widest ideological divides is part of what the world needs most of all, and that the only thing stopping anyone from doing it is their own personal factional interests. Then all the world will see that the emperor of excuses and camouflage for animosities and hostilities across ideological divides, has no clothes. I can see that happening in another generation or two, maybe even in five or ten years. That will dramatically accelerate the growth and spread of the movement. Eventually it will overpower factional interests from the inside out.

 

[Jim]

I have close friends and fave relatives who are believers, and that works because the subject of religion almost never arises in our discussions.

That situation would be unimaginable with evangelicals.

A Muslim and Christian Walk Into a Friendship | IFYC

“In my second year of college I was blessed with the friendship of someone who was the last person I imagined has become one of my best friends, David: a conservative, evangelical, Christian guy. For many Muslims, having a friend with those descriptors sets off a number of alarms.”

“I figured we could be friends and have nice conversations, work together on occasion, but that would be the extent of it. Never did either of us realize that our first 3-hour conversation about religion would foretell the next five years of our friendship.”

“We now joke that he can speak better ‘Muslim’ and I can speak better ‘Christian’ than some people in our own communities.”

“Just as most things in life, friendship and faith are processes, let them inform one another. And the great thing about these friendships is that you know that at the end of the day after all the difficult questions and agitating answers, you have a friend who will be at your side to support you no matter what.”

 

[ObjectOfMercy]

You can't do good unless you first know what it is to do good. It is good to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the best good man can do. That is the only good from which springs all the good that man may do. Without faith in Christ it is impossible to please God.

 

[blü 2]

A Muslim and Christian Walk Into a Friendship | IFYC

“In my second year of college I was blessed with the friendship of someone who was the last person I imagined has become one of my best friends, David: a conservative, evangelical, Christian guy. For many Muslims, having a friend with those descriptors sets off a number of alarms.”

“I figured we could be friends and have nice conversations, work together on occasion, but that would be the extent of it. Never did either of us realize that our first 3-hour conversation about religion would foretell the next five years of our friendship.”

“We now joke that he can speak better ‘Muslim’ and I can speak better ‘Christian’ than some people in our own communities.”

“Just as most things in life, friendship and faith are processes, let them inform one another. And the great thing about these friendships is that you know that at the end of the day after all the difficult questions and agitating answers, you have a friend who will be at your side to support you no matter what.”

Once long ago, in a galaxy far away, I worked in an office where my immediate boss was a man from Egypt who in the workplace called himself John. After one success he asked me round to dinner, which I remember for three things. First, it was a very relaxed, very pleasant evening. Second, he'd bought a bottle of wine because he knew I drank wine, and he poured two glasses and took the one sip out of his own when we clinked (though he left the rest to me). Third, his wife, who was a lovely lady, didn't sit with us, but served then disappeared back to the kitchen throughout; though she joined us briefly for coffee and farewells after. Very educational for the younger me. Both of them smart, graceful people.

 

[blü 2]

You can't do good unless you first know what it is to do good. It is good to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the best good man can do. That is the only good from which springs all the good that man may do. Without faith in Christ it is impossible to please God.

Odd that [he] never mentioned this to the Jews or the Muslims.

Or the Hindus or the Buddhists.

Or the Shintoists or the Daoists.

Or the followers of the Great Spirit or the Rainbow Serpent.

 

[Jim]

You can't do good unless you first know what it is to do good. It is good to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the best good man can do. That is the only good from which springs all the good that man may do. Without faith in Christ it is impossible to please God.

Are you giving that as a reason for disagreeing with some of my points? If so, which ones?

Do you think that God has given you, or anyone else, the ability to know how much faith in Christ any person has, or ever will?

ETA:

Would you use that as an excuse that be a reason for you not to be friends with a Muslim, and work side by side with them, in some kind of community service?

 

[Notanumber]

@Nowhere Man @wellwisher @Altfish @HonestJoe @Vinayaka @Revoltingest @Unveiled Artist @Epic Beard Man @LuisDantas @Shadow Wolf @Notanumber @Shad @lewisnotmiller @blü 2

I see that my first point might easily be misunderstood. I’m not thinking that any two people today, chosen randomly, can become close friends and work side by side. What I’m thinking is that it sometimes happens that two people whose belief systems are as incompatible and opposed to each other as possible, become close friends and companions, working side by side in service to others. It might be in a medical clinic or a food bank for example. To simplify, I'll say for example that a Quran revering Muslim and a Bible revering Christian, known to each other as such, could be working side by side in a medical clinic, neighborhood center, or some other neighborhood community service, and become close friends and companions in the process. Enduring friendships between people endorsing the most incompatible belief systems are happening that way. I think that everyone knows that, and if they ever wanted to be in a friendship like that, they would know what to do. Obviously most people today aren’t interested in doing that, or they have other priorities. What I’m saying is that it does happen sometimes, everyone knows that it happens sometimes, and if they ever wanted to practice it, they would know what to do.

I might be wrong about everyone knowing that it happens and how to do it. However that may be, there’s a growing and spreading movement of people becoming close friends and companions across the widest ideological divides, working side by side in service to others. Their stories are being told, and multiplying. The more desperately and violently that factional interests try to stop that from happening, the faster it will grow and spread.

Sooner or later it will be common knowledge that companionship and collaboration across the widest ideological divides is part of what the world needs most of all, and that the only thing stopping anyone from doing it is their own personal factional interests. Then all the world will see that the emperor of excuses and camouflage for animosities and hostilities across ideological divides, has no clothes. I can see that happening in another generation or two, maybe even in five or ten years. That will dramatically accelerate the growth and spread of the movement. Eventually it will overpower factional interests from the inside out.

What about a Quran revering Muslim and an Atheist, that are known to each other as such. I cannot see how that relationship would work if they were both being honest and truthful.

If the Atheist knows enough about the Islamic ideology, distrust is inevitable.

 

[loverofhumanity]

NOTE: I added the poll after I started the thread.
(edited to add numbering)
1. People can be close companions, and work together side by side, for the benefit of others, no matter what they believe or don’t believe about God or religion, and no matter what religions or scriptures they follow or don’t follow.
2. I think that everyone knows this.
3. I think that everyone knows how to do it.
4. I think that practice is growing and spreading.
5. I think that it will continue to grow and spread.
6. I think that makes a world of peace, justice and prosperity inevitable.
7. I think that anyone who wants to can be part of that movement, whenever they want to.

Skeptics and truth-tellers, bring it on!

I think that this is one of or perhaps the noblest sentiment one can have in this day and age, to love and accept all fellow human beings as they are and welcome all as equal members of the human family.

This sentiment I feel, should it become universal, will bring about harmony and peace whereas the ‘us and them’ mentality only causes conflict and divisions and brings with it untold misery.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What about a Quran revering Muslim and an Atheist, that are known to each other as such. I cannot see how that relationship would work if they were both being honest and truthful.

If the Atheist knows enough about the Islamic ideology, distrust is inevitable.

I disagree. If both look to their humanity and many do, they can get along even as best friends I would argue.