Poll: capitalism or democracy?

[Eddi]

Does democracy control capitalism or does capitalism control democracy?

Which is ultimately in charge?

Personally, I think capitalism could abolish democracy but that democracy could never abolish capitalism.

I think that democracy (as we know it) is a feature of capitalism, I don't think that capitalism is a feature of a democracy.

And that democracy is not necessary an indispensable feature of capitalism!

I think it exists to placate the masses and to give us a false sense of importance.

I think that capitalism always comes first......

If I had to choose between calling our current socio-economic system as either "Capitalist" or "Democratic" I would very much go with the former.

Edit: (I said the following in a reply to @Snow White and thought it would be good to put in the OP)

Which has the most control over society and individuals?

I say the power of capitalism rather than the power of the people.

I think capitalism has way more power than the people, in the current system.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'm a little confused. My mind can't quite wrap itself around a "Capitalism vs. democracy" debate.

But it could be you're talking at a higher level than I'm prepared to discuss with people.

 

[Eddi]

I'm a little confused. My mind can't quite wrap itself around a "Capitalism vs. democracy" debate.

But it could be you're talking at a higher level than I'm prepared to discuss with people.

I mean which has the most control over society and individuals?

I say the power of capitalism rather than the power of the people.

I think capitalism has way more power than the people, in the current system.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I mean which has the most control over society and individuals?

I say the power of capitalism rather than the power of the people.

I think capitalism has way more power than the people, in the current system.

The words that you're saying. They kind of make sense. But I just don't know how to apply it to US politics, where we have Capitalist Democrats, Socialist Democrats, etc.

 

[Eddi]

The words that you're saying. They kind of make sense. But I just don't know how to apply it to US politics, where we have Capitalist Democrats, Socialist Democrats, etc.

I'd say that in the case of "Capitalist Democrats" the capitalist elements are more telling than the democratic elements.

And that socialists don't have the same definition of democracy as capitalists.

I'm a Social Democrat and I have a very different view of democracy and how it should be than a Capitalist Democrat would. Indeed I don't think we are operating the same concepts.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'd say that in the case of "Capitalist Democrats" the capitalist elements are more telling than the democratic elements.

And that socialists don't have the same definition of democracy as capitalists.

I'm a Social Democrat and I have a very different view of democracy and how it should be than a Capitalist Democrat would. Indeed I don't think we are operating the same concepts.

I mean, this discussion might interest me. There were some buzzwords thrown around which interest me.

I'm just feeling some language barrier or something, or the concepts you are talking about are pretty college level, and beyond what I'm prepared to answer.

So I may opt out for now and read the responses. If after seeing the responses, I can get a greater grasp on the subject, I might be able to join in again.

It's nothing personal though, as I feel most of your posts, I understand, and I also think you are a cool member.

 

[Revoltingest]

Your

Does democracy control capitalism or does capitalism control democracy?

Which is ultimately in charge?

Personally, I think capitalism could abolish democracy but that democracy could never abolish capitalism.

I think that democracy (as we know it) is a feature of capitalism, I don't think that capitalism is a feature of a democracy.

And that democracy is not necessary an indispensable feature of capitalism!

I think it exists to placate the masses and to give us a false sense of importance.

I think that capitalism always comes first......

If I had to choose between calling our current socio-economic system as either "Capitalist" or "Democratic" I would very much go with the former.

Edit: (I said the following in a reply to @Snow White and thought it would be good to put in the OP)

Which has the most control over society and individuals?

I say the power of capitalism rather than the power of the people.

I think capitalism has way more power than the people, in the current system.

Your question is like asking which link
in a chain supports the load.
The poll won't let me vote for both links.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Your

Your question is like asking which link
in a chain supports the load.
The poll won't let me vote for both links.

When you read it, did you get the vibe that it was like asking, "Which is better - apples or Apple?" In other words, comparing two completely unlike things.

Or did you more get the vibe that it was like asking, "Which Jenga piece removed will fall the tower?" In other words, comparing two alike things, just not being able to decide the process.

 

[Revoltingest]

When you read it, did you get the vibe that it was like asking, "Which is better - apples or Apple?" In other words, comparing two completely unlike things.

Or did you more get the vibe that it was like asking, "Which Jenga piece removed will fall the tower?" In other words, comparing two alike things, just not being able to decide the process.

It reminds me of a biology teacher I once had.
(Yes, she was hot.) She wanted us each to pick
some body part or system, & debate why it was
the most essential. Heart, brain, skeleton....which
can we do without?

 

[HonestJoe]

Does democracy control capitalism or does capitalism control democracy?

Which is ultimately in charge?

Neither. They're both abstract concepts and so can't control or be in charge of anything. They are essentially tools people use, but even then it will be in widely varying ways and contexts, to the point that I don't think you can isolate either to consider out of context.

I think that democracy (as we know it) is a feature of capitalism, I don't think that capitalism is a feature of a democracy.

It depends on the framing of course, but couldn't we say that lots of places had capitalism long before they had democracy? For example, England had the East India Company while it was still a pure monarchy.

And that democracy is not necessary an indispensable feature of capitalism!

I don't see how either could be an indispensable feature of the other. I'm not even sure they are all that interconnected at all.

I think capitalism has way more power than the people, in the current system.

I'll accept capitalism has more power if that's what the majority say but if you want me to accept that democracy has more power, it will cost you.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'll accept capitalism has more power if that's what the majority say but if you want me to accept that democracy has more power, it will cost you.

Wow. That line was actually great!

 

[RestlessSoul]

Money can't buy you love, but it can certainly buy votes. It can also buy you access to media which frame the terms of political discourse.

Capitalists learned these lessons in the 19th Century, and subsequently have not needed to fear democracy. That said, fascism arguably benefitted the most ruthless among them even more. This may simply be because capitalism thrives on war, and is adept at switching sides.

 

[Eddi]

Neither. They're both abstract concepts and so can't control or be in charge of anything.

OK then....

Who has more power: the electorate or the wealthy?

Imagine a powerful and influential capitalist: does his political power come from him being a member of the electorate or from his economic position?

The way I see it, one's economic position (or class if you prefer) determines one's political power rather than one's membership of an electorate.

And those who benefit from this arrangement would have you think different

I'm not even sure they are all that interconnected at all

Look at all the money involved in the political process

Seems pretty interconnected to me

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I think capitalism has way more power than the people, in the current system.

I'm thinking it might, too.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

@Eddi , I think I'm getting the hang of the subject. I feel it is pretty college level, but it's actually a good discussion, I think.

It makes you think.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Does democracy control capitalism or does capitalism control democracy?

Actually, both can control each other.

One way democracy can control Capitalism is by regulating it.

One way Capitalism can control democracy is via political funding.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Personally, I think capitalism could abolish democracy but that democracy could never abolish capitalism.

Um, wait. If democracy leads to communism in some way in a system, would that refute your point?

 

[Eddi]

One way democracy can control Capitalism is by regulating it.

I accept that democratic institutions can and do regulate capitalism, for the benefit of the system.

To make the system more robust, healthy, and flourishing.

But you have to ask, whose interest does the entire system serve?

Whose interest does having a robust, healthy and flourishing capitalist system serve?

Who are the winners and who are the losers?

I maintain that the capitalist system benefits the capitalists at the expense of everyone else

 

[Revoltingest]

I maintain that the capitalist system benefits the capitalists at the expense of everyone else

Have a better system to offer?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I accept that democratic institutions can and do regulate capitalism, for the benefit of the system.

To make the system more robust, healthy, and flourishing.

But you have to ask, whose interest does the entire system serve?

Whose interest does having a robust, healthy and flourishing capitalist system serve?

Who are the winners and who are the losers?

I maintain that the capitalist system benefits the capitalists at the expense of everyone else

You may have a point.