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Poll Shows Trump Leading Biden 51 To 42

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Seems that a Washington Post-ABC poll indicates that Biden is falling behind. Is this due to the economy, border, crime, and Biden's semmingly lack of menta acuity, or is just another meaningless poll?
Looked about like that four years ago as well.
So what?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
What's really astonishing to me is that voters are much more negatively concerned with Biden's age than with Trump's criminal activities.

I wonder if maybe the pollsters shouldn't ask instead, "who you would you prefer to safeguard your family's possessions and and finances while you had to be away for several months: Donald Trump or Joe Biden?"
Not his age directly but things associated with age.

His constant and numerous made up lies and claims and his mental deterioration
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I am hoping for at least one conviction and the 14th Amendment being found to apply.
I would like to see at least one president in my lifetime that makes it to superstar level like famous ones in the past.

George Washington

Abraham Lincoln

FDR

JFK

For examples.

When was the last time we had one beloved and lauded by both parties as major players in history ?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I would like to see at least one president in my lifetime that makes it to superstar level like famous ones in the past.

George Washington

Abraham Lincoln

FDR

JFK

For examples.

When was the last time we had one beloved and lauded by both parties as major players in history ?
I would not mind that. And I will have to agree that the answer is not Biden. He is a clear improvement over Trump, but then it would be very very hard to find someone that would not be an improvement.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
There are so many things I could list. I'll limit it to 8.

1. Giving lots of money to special interest groups including Comcast (debatable subject, but still)

2. Empty, unnuanced words in address to the LGBT+ community that doesn't do it proper justice

3. Too much focus on student loans, not enough focus on closing up loop-holes in government

4. Too strong a focus on Capitalism

5. Right wing to the point that he sometimes misses the picture, or speaks about delicate subjects in an unnuanced way

6. Talks too much about what he wants to do. His actions should speak louder.

7. Hasn't done enough to convince voters the dangers of Trump, and when he does speak about it, he speaks about it in a way which turns off both sides

8. Has a short fuse sometimes when it comes to debate and difficult subjects
Well, as a Canadian, I can't claim to know all about those. But let's see...

1. Giving lots of money...Comcast? Wasn't that part of the promise (and it wasn't just Comcast, it was AT&T and others) to expand broadband or wireless broadband via 5G to every American? Do you think he could do that without involving the nation's experts in those technologies -- and do you think he could (or should) force them to do it for free?

2. Empty, unnuanced words in address to the LGBT+ community that doesn't do it proper justice? But didn't he reverse the transgender military ban from the Trump administration? That's a concrete step, and it is within his power. Much else comes under states' rights -- so what would you have him do other than encourage with words and arguments? Violate states' rights?

3. Too much focus on student loans, not enough focus on closing up loop-holes in government? But really, didn't he promise to do something about student loans? So shouldn't he focus on that -- as a promise? But why not be a little specific: what "loop-holes in government" are you referring to that you think he should close up? And do you have a suggestion as to how you think he should do it?

4. Too strong a focus on capitalism? That, I'm afraid, is something he should be praised for. It is impossible for a society to create wealth without a basic underpinning of capitalism -- of privacy of ownership, and the ability to profit from one's own genius, entrepreneurial spirit, risk-taking and effort. Yes, more could be done about social concerns, but that is not the American way right now, is it? Read so many other threads in these forums, and every time the word "social" comes up, endless hysterical posts screaming "the end of America" follow inevitably.

5. Right wing to the point that he sometimes misses the picture, or speaks about delicate subjects in an unnuanced way? I'd need some examples about what you mean there. (As a Canadian, everbody in the USA is to the right of my views -- but Joe Biden far less than so many others.)

6. Talks too much about what he wants to do. His actions should speak louder? The "promises kept" that I posted, as well as the even more promises still in progress and promises stymied by Republican opposition ARE his actions. But it is the leader's job not only to tell people about what he wants to do, but to tell them often, to communicate -- to paint the "richly-imagined future" so as to bring the majority on-board. No President can do it all by himself (and hopefully, herself one day). The job is much, much more about getting everybody engaged. And that's communication.

7. Hasn't done enough to convince voters the dangers of Trump, and when he does speak about it, he speaks about it in a way which turns off both sides? Trump has 91 indictments before the courts at the moment -- and I think it would be very wrong for a sitting President to jump into that fray. He must, in very fairness to the justice system, be very, very careful in what he says, how he says it. I think it is far, far better for him to focus on his vision for America's future (whether you agree with that vision or not) than on the mistakes of its past.

8. Has a short fuse sometimes when it comes to debate and difficult subjects? Again, I would need examples before I could respond. I have not seen them. However, I will say this -- he is a human being, and it is in the nature of every human being that the more difficult a subject becomes, the more likely that his amygdala will hijack his responses. Even Speaker McCarthy, the other day, yelled to his caucus in very real anger "bring the ******* motion!" And that, I think, was an amygdala hijack. Much like the one he had on the House floor after vote 13 on his Speakership.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I would not mind that. And I will have to agree that the answer is not Biden. He is a clear improvement over Trump, but then it would be very very hard to find someone that would not be an improvement.
It's true the American public is repeatedly forced to choose candidates that are overwhelmingly under par for the office of the president of the United States.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Well, as a Canadian, I can't claim to know all about those. But let's see...

1. Giving lots of money...Comcast? Wasn't that part of the promise (and it wasn't just Comcast, it was AT&T and others) to expand broadband or wireless broadband via 5G to every American? Do you think he could do that without involving the nation's experts in those technologies -- and do you think he could (or should) force them to do it for free? There was actually much more to the initiative than that. He paid certain people's internet through a government plan. It was a huge initiative. And it costs many, many, many, many billions. Comcast and ATT are probably rich now. Think about how the money could have been used on more, broad stimulus for Americans.

2. Empty, unnuanced words in address to the LGBT+ community that doesn't do it proper justice? But didn't he reverse the transgender military ban from the Trump administration? That's a concrete step, and it is within his power. Much else comes under states' rights -- so what would you have him do other than encourage with words and arguments? Violate states' rights? Transgender is a huge issue. Reversing the ban is simply not enough. It's a drop in a mega sized bucket. Things may have actually gotten worse for some transgender people since Biden took office.

3. Too much focus on student loans, not enough focus on closing up loop-holes in government? But really, didn't he promise to do something about student loans? So shouldn't he focus on that -- as a promise? But why not be a little specific: what "loop-holes in government" are you referring to that you think he should close up? And do you have a suggestion as to how you think he should do it? Too much focus. Once he realized that it wouldn't fly, he should have focused energy on something else. As for the loop-holes, they should patch all the things which allowed crazy things to happen under Trump, and they need to be closed before the election, honestly. A couple of loop-holes have already been addressed, though.

4. Too strong a focus on capitalism? That, I'm afraid, is something he should be praised for. It is impossible for a society to create wealth without a basic underpinning of capitalism -- of privacy of ownership, and the ability to profit from one's own genius, entrepreneurial spirit, risk-taking and effort. Yes, more could be done about social concerns, but that is not the American way right now, is it? Read so many other threads in these forums, and every time the word "social" comes up, endless hysterical posts screaming "the end of America" follow inevitably. I think you're getting a distorted view of the issue based on certain posts, but I could be wrong. There's a certain fear in America now, and change is one of them. So of course these people might be scared of changing the system.

5. Right wing to the point that he sometimes misses the picture, or speaks about delicate subjects in an unnuanced way? I'd need some examples about what you mean there. (As a Canadian, everbody in the USA is to the right of my views -- but Joe Biden far less than so many others.) We need unity in this time, I feel, even if it's unity on one side. I see Biden as too right-wing, uncharismatic, and unnuanced to bring much energy, at least at this point. I'm saying that the bar needs to be set high now for President. We need another Obama, but much better. One who doesn't make the same mistakes.

6. Talks too much about what he wants to do. His actions should speak louder? The "promises kept" that I posted, as well as the even more promises still in progress and promises stymied by Republican opposition ARE his actions. But it is the leader's job not only to tell people about what he wants to do, but to tell them often, to communicate -- to paint the "richly-imagined future" so as to bring the majority on-board. No President can do it all by himself (and hopefully, herself one day). The job is much, much more about getting everybody engaged. And that's communication. He's not a real good communicator, though, I feel. In such a case, why waste much energy talking? It's not going to unite anyone.

7. Hasn't done enough to convince voters the dangers of Trump, and when he does speak about it, he speaks about it in a way which turns off both sides? Trump has 91 indictments before the courts at the moment -- and I think it would be very wrong for a sitting President to jump into that fray. He must, in very fairness to the justice system, be very, very careful in what he says, how he says it. I think it is far, far better for him to focus on his vision for America's future (whether you agree with that vision or not) than on the mistakes of its past. Biden is neither careful nor stays out of fanning the flames. If you haven't seen that, I can understand, since you may not get all speeches in Canada (I'm not sure). So he has covered some of these subjects before, and they were a strike-out and a huge miss each time. I'd be surprised if TV stations even wanted to cover them much, in general.

8. Has a short fuse sometimes when it comes to debate and difficult subjects? Again, I would need examples before I could respond. I have not seen them. However, I will say this -- he is a human being, and it is in the nature of every human being that the more difficult a subject becomes, the more likely that his amygdala will hijack his responses. Even Speaker McCarthy, the other day, yelled to his caucus in very real anger "bring the F****** motion!" And that, I think, was an amygdala hijack. Much like the one he had on the House floor after vote 13 on his Speakership. There are news stories about Americans with legitimate concerns asking him hard questions in person, and him getting mad and telling them off, even telling them to "vote for the other side [if you want to be that way]

I responded.

For those just tuning in to this. What's in black in the post is my original writing. What's in red but not bold is @Evangelicalhumanist 's writing. What's in red and bold is my responses.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
What's really astonishing to me is that voters are much more negatively concerned with Biden's age than with Trump's criminal activities.

I wonder if maybe the pollsters shouldn't ask instead, "who you would you prefer to safeguard your family's possessions and and finances while you had to be away for several months: Donald Trump or Joe Biden?"
Trump will be 78 next year so he isn't no spring chicken.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
That Trump and Biden are the two best people they can come up with is an embrassment for America.
2016 = two bad choices
2020 = two bad choices
2024 = looks to be again two bad choices
There never will be a good choice. Even JFK barely won in 1960. He was a Catholic, and that was bad to many Americans.
 

Unfettered

A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
It's true the American public is repeatedly forced to choose candidates that are overwhelmingly under par for the office of the president of the United States.
As strong a statement as that is, it is still a gross understatement. No president in my lifetime has been fit to be president. They have all been partisan stooges. I'm afraid F1fan's most recent post will prove to be prophetic, though I hate hearing myself agree to such a bleak reality. I always hold out hope that our halls of government will one day fill with the best choices, rather than the barely tolerable among poor choices.
 
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F1fan

Veteran Member
As strong a statement as that is, it is still a gross understatement. No president in my lifetime has been fit to be president. They have all been partisan stooges. I'm afraid F1fan's most recent post will prove to be prophetic, though I hate hearing myself agree to such a bleak reality. I always hold out hope that our halls of government will one day fill with the best choices, rather than the acceptable among poor choices.
At this point the most valuable trait is a candidate that is ethical and will obey the oath of office. Biden is doing this. Trump has not. Right now is not the time to complain about the perfect candidate, like a spoiled child complaining about what is served for dinner when his neighbors are starving. I think the complaints about Biden as a candidate ignore the threat that Trump poses.
 

Unfettered

A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
At this point the most valuable trait is a candidate that is ethical and will obey the oath of office. Biden is doing this. Trump has not. Right now is not the time to complain about the perfect candidate, like a spoiled child complaining about what is served for dinner when his neighbors are starving. I think the complaints about Biden as a candidate ignore the threat that Trump poses.
"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

When you say that President Biden is fulfilling the above oath, what specifically is in your mind?

As for complaining about the perfect candidate, though it never does any good to complain at all, in a republic like ours isn't it always the right time for the citizenry to discuss government and candidates and laws and policies?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

When you say that President Biden is fulfilling the above oath, what specifically is in your mind?
That like all presidents before him, except Trump, has honored the oath and served according to the law. Lincoln might be an exception with certain restrictions on rights, but the USA was engaged in civil war.
As for complaining about the perfect candidate, though it never does any good to complain at all, in a republic like ours isn't it always the right time for the citizenry to discuss government and candidates and laws and policies?
When it is coke versus pepsi, either decision is survivable. When it is coke versus cyanide, why worry about your preference for pepsi? Right now for 2024 our only concern is not allowing Trump to win. It is concerning so many are supporting a disturbed man who is facing 4 indictments. The USA has a sickness and perhaps if Trump wins and there are consequences, the USA can recover eventually.
 
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