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Polygamists arrested in Bountiful

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member

challupa

Well-Known Member
Two prominent members of breakaway Mormon sects have been arrested on charges of polygamy in Canada. This will be a test of Canada's anti-polygamy laws. The government contends that these marriage arrangements are exploitative; the arrested sect leaders are contending that their marriages are protected under Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Bountiful leader calls polygamy charge 'religious persecution'

Background: B.C. religious leaders charged with polygamy
Yes this one should really be interesting. He has always said if he was ever arrested, he would take it all the way to the supreme court. It will set precedents that's for sure.
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friends,
The law surely will do the needful which is good for the people however the desire of such will remain and till such desires drop from the minds of people such acts will continue.
Love & rgds
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend TurkeyOnRye,

Law is the antithesis of moment to moment action. Law is insane.

Yes, true as it comes the mind which is by nature neurotic.
Deires can be dropped only by having a STILL mind.

Love & rgds
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Two prominent members of breakaway Mormon sects have been arrested on charges of polygamy in Canada. This will be a test of Canada's anti-polygamy laws. The government contends that these marriage arrangements are exploitative; the arrested sect leaders are contending that their marriages are protected under Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
This is all happening near where I live and I, for one, hope that this case exposes these frauds once and for all. This case shouldn't be about polygamy, it should be about child abuse and that is what gets my hackles up. It is my sincere wish that this group becomes as vilified as the followers of Warren Jeffs.

It is my belief that no "religious freedom" should run counter to the EXISTING laws of the land and that there should be no compromises -- whatsoever. If this requires that the Charter of Rights be amended, then so be it.

Regardless, this will be a very interesting case. One idea that I heard yesterday was that marriage licences are not obtained in these particular "marriages" and so, in the eyes of the law, the people are not technically married. That alone would make it impossible to convict them on charges of polygamy as, again, in the 'eyes of the law', they are not married. Where it gets fuzzy is when people openly admit to living in polygamous relationships. Suffice to say that the lawyers are going to have a field day. :yes:
 
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challupa

Well-Known Member
I agree that this is not about polygamy. This is clearly about child abuse. No religion on the face of this earth should be exempt from child abuse. In the 2006 interview with Blackmore he admitted that there were girls as young as 15 that were married to men in their 40's. In that interview they also talked to a couple of women that got away from Bountiful and they alleged that there were girls even younger than that. So it needs to be addressed from that angle imo.

Also, Blackmore brings a great deal of money into the Creston Valley and people have pretty much turned a blind eye to his commune because they see them in the community so much. While travelling through the area I stopped at a restaurant that just happened to be owned by Blackmore and he and his cronies were in there. Their women cooked and served the tables. So you see they have integrated into the community as well. I am not against different religious practices, however, when they affect the welfare of children, that is where I personally draw the line.
 

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
*sigh* unable to read the links

But I will say that I have no problem with polygamy itself, as long as it's a situation where it IS love, and not some excuse for abusing and using people.

And from what I gather from reading the responses so far, is that this particular instance apparantly involved abuse. The lengths people will go to to make excuses for their behaviour sometimes does surprise me.
 

kimkim

newnew
I don't think one should automatically associate polygamy with child molesters and abusers and so forth. Polygamy is not the only religion where children are mistreated. If you were to break it down abuse happens in that kind of religion as much as it does in any other form like catholosism and judaism.
Back in the times of Christ men were allowed to marry more than one woman and that's really how the earth became bountiful and fruitful. I think people are so against polygamy because they don't understand it. Why do men stand outside compounds with big artillary? It's not so the people within can't get out, it's so you can't get in. In all those compounds and polygamist colonies, they don't allow drinking gambling, smoking, drugs prostitution or anything demonic like that destroying the innocent mids of their children.. But people don't get that. All these judges and lawyers want to break up and destroy what they don't understand and contaminate the rest of the world because they are miserable. The wives in these colonies don't speak up because they don't have to the men do it for them. Before you listen to the tall tales of the news, maybe you should do backround checking first.
 

bell

Girl
Although I personally don't agree with polygamy, I don't see a problem with it as long as all participants are over the age of consent and capable of clearly and knowledgably making a decision to take part in that sort of relationship. When it's adults-only, then I'm not as concerned, although I still worry that the adults, particularly the women of a man with x amount of wives, are coerced and brain-washed. However, when children are involved, then I become worried. If they are exposed to friends, peers, adults and livestyles outside of the polygamist family or group, and are able to learn enough to freely make choices about their own lives, fine. I simply worry that children raised in those environments are coerced and trained to become future polygamists, and are ignorant of other ways of living and different family structures. When the groups are closed and members policed, it's too cult-like for me, and I think the children should be removed. Furthermore, because of recent news, I do feel those environments create a breeding group for child sexual abuse.

There needs to be compromise struck which allows people to make the decisions they want in their relationships, but ensures the vulnerable are not being exploited, coerced or abused in any way. I'm not sure what that would entail, practically --- probably occasional visitations by social workers and child welfare, and opportunities to interact with those not involved in the lifestyle -- but I would be supportive of compromise.
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
Part of the problem with this sect is that the leaders have boasted about marrying girls as young as 14 or 15. In our modern age, this is quite unacceptable. It was justifiable, perhaps, in ancient peasant cultures where girls need to breed early and often to prevent the destruction of the tribe. Today? Hardly.
 

challupa

Well-Known Member
I don't have a problem with polygamy either. That's why I think they charged them with the wrong thing. It's the on camera interviews where he has publicly announced that he married girls as young as 14 and 15 to older men in the community. That I feel is child abuse.

When they did the arrest a reporter was asking a group of girls about 7 or 8 if they minded sharing a husband. They all thought that would be fine. He never asked about what age they thought they should be when it happened though. I wonder what the answer would have been to that?
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it would have been better to charge them with sexual exploitation like they did in the States. That's a meatier charge that would survive a constitutional challenge.
 

TurkeyOnRye

Well-Known Member
Tell that to the girl down the street who was recently raped.

Law does not save a girl from being raped. Law does not have respect for moment to moment situations. Men and women who focus their attention into the present moment and take necessary action that is suited to the situation at hand save others, such as a girl from being raped. When we put our loyalty into law alone, we not only diminish our ability to take suited action, we may even take action that actually ends up being harmful...like letting a rapist off the hook because his lawyer found a legal loophole.
 
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challupa

Well-Known Member
Law does not save a girl from being raped. Law does not have respect for moment to moment situations. Men and women who focus their attention into the present moment and take necessary action that is suited to the situation at hand save others, such as a girl from being raped. When we put our loyalty into law alone, we not only diminish our ability to take suited action, we may even take action that actually ends up being harmful...like letting a rapist off the hook because his lawyer found a legal loophole.
Thanks for explaining what you meant. I understand better now.
 
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