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Polytheism and the Universe

Nikkolas

New Member
So I've always wondered at the typical theistic view of God. He is infinite and that's great and all but it makes me wonder why he wastes his time with us. I guess he doesn't really conceive of time but my point is just that humans are a tiny, tiny, TINY part of the universe. God showing us special favor is weird to me. But he's still all-powerful according to traditional ideas so why not it's not like he's losing anything.

But what of polytheism? And I know there are a myriad different kinds of polytheisms out there so I'm sorry I can't be more specific but I'm speaking just very generally to those who believe in multiple deities. What is the role of these beings in the wider context of the universe? Are they somehow Earth-bound or do they reign over all the universe? Obviously they are not infinite beings but I guess you don't have to be infinite to have universal significance or power.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
To speak in generalities about historical Paganisms (aka, indigenous religious traditions), they are very much shaped by the character of the lands they developed in. Some use the phrase "earth-centered religion" to describe this, and the traditions tend to be very "earth-affirming" in that they honor the sacred in a very local, non-univeralized way. For example, individual rivers or landforms would be associated with (or literally viewed as) particular deities. Particular gods would be patrons of this city, but not that city. Things like that.

Contemporary Paganism - the new religious movement that began in roughly the 1940s or so - is a bit different than that. It developed in a globalized world divorced from the original earth-centered contexts of the historical traditions. As such, many contemporary Pagan traditions have a more universalized flavor to them. Historically distinct deities are sometimes viewed as interchangeable or facets of a more universal principle, for example. There's often more of a focus on universalizing deities on the whole.

Personally? I go with more of a classical approach. I tailor my religion - and thus my relationships with the gods - around what is local to me. I don't really ask myself what the role of the gods is in the context of the universe. I cannot experience that context, so it is not relevant to my life. If I stop to think about it, sure, I can speculate that "yes, this deity is most certainly local" and "yes, this deity is most certainly universal." But at the end of the day, do I really know that? Nope. I focus on the relationships I can have right here and now, not on speculating beyond my station.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
So I've always wondered at the typical theistic view of God. He is infinite and that's great and all but it makes me wonder why he wastes his time with us. I guess he doesn't really conceive of time but my point is just that humans are a tiny, tiny, TINY part of the universe. God showing us special favor is weird to me. But he's still all-powerful according to traditional ideas so why not it's not like he's losing anything.

But what of polytheism? And I know there are a myriad different kinds of polytheisms out there so I'm sorry I can't be more specific but I'm speaking just very generally to those who believe in multiple deities. What is the role of these beings in the wider context of the universe? Are they somehow Earth-bound or do they reign over all the universe? Obviously they are not infinite beings but I guess you don't have to be infinite to have universal significance or power.

I dont know about deities since they remind me of spirits with no bodies. Casper of sorts. Ancestral spirits that I talk with daily are too some a form of worship; so, they are, cough, gods in the literal definition of the term worship.

Spirits (in my view) are earth bound. They were born on earth and die on earth but their spirit lives on earth. I dont know if there is a time limit. I never thought about it. I guess its somewhat like abrahamic in that family takes care of their living family if going by concept. Its drastically different since spirits are people you know personally and those you dont are in some way related. There are spirits Ive encountered I dont know but they seem to hang out in historical areas where there were a lot of death such as wars and holocausts etc. Had that experience before I knew the history. It was a dual experience with a room mate in college camp. Was interesting.

Nature has spirits and objects the deceased own has their spirits. At my alter there are my ancestors with my aunt who died two weeks ago.

Outside of that, no one has explained to me what a deity actually is. Id like to know from a Pagan since abrahamics are very generalized in their definitions. Cultural religions I came across are very distinct.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
The role of the gods is simple, they have an innate quality of creation and the power to express absolute dominion in various forms. Anything can be reduced to a divinity at the end of the day and any quality of man can be reduced to a divinity as well. Take for example a human quality like love or a natural phenomena like stars, winds, fire, etc. Most importantly is the human power of language which is key in most religions as divinity often has a specific language and you see this distinction in Catholicism and Latin, Jews with Hebrew and Muslims with Arabic. This is also used in Protestantism with English for example with words like testimony, tithe, and blessing being used in an almost strictly Protestant way. To me this is the only unifying power amongst divinity in that it extends as far as language and further.

I should also add I am a hard polytheist.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I'll keep it simple: some are, some aren't. I do know that Greco-Roman polytheism became increasingly cosmic in scope as time went on. The Gods were viewed as overseeing the foundations of the Cosmos and the evolution of all souls. That's mostly found in the writings of the philosophers and mystery schools so I doubt it had a lot of impact on common religion, which continued to be focused on mundane things. Much the same situation today, actually.
 

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
What is the role of these beings in the wider context of the universe? Are they somehow Earth-bound or do they reign over all the universe? Obviously they are not infinite beings but I guess you don't have to be infinite to have universal significance or power.

This is only my opinion as a polytheist working in a Buddhist framework. The gods do not in my view, reign over the universe exactly. That isn't exactly the way to say it.

As to their natures- Buddhists have historically tended to see them as inclined to benevolence, though there are exceptions and malevolent deities. Note: gods being inclined to benevolence doesn't mean they're perfect at it, or always good. Like people they can mess up with the best of intentions, or being stubborn and thinking they know best in an enterprise.

The high gods in Buddhism appear in traditional sources to be the deities of Mount Meru, which is the Vedic equivalent of Mount Olympus. In Buddhist cosmology, these gods of the heavenly mountain serve a very similar role to what they do in Greek mythology.

They maintain and uphold the world and it's order. The chief of them is Indra- Greek equivalent: Zeus.

They are mostly protective in the Buddhist context- invoked for protection of the community and the teaching, but it is remembered in several traditional sources that they uphold the present order of the world.

As stated, this is almost identical to their Greek equivalents. In Greek mythology, you may have heard that the Olympians inherited the rule from the Titans, and changed the order in several ways to suit themselves. They then made it their job to maintain that order.

I would say in the wider context of the universe, I don't attribute most of the workings there to the deities of Mount Meru, but to older ones like Brahma. I think a polytheistic creation makes more sense because we observe in nature contradictory elements trying to annihilate one another. These could not have been placed there by a monotheistic deity of one purpose and mind.

A polytheistic framework explains it infinitely better. That multiple beings brought about multiple elements of the Cosmos. I think all the gods of all the world's mythologies likely exist. As a Buddhist, I honor them out of recognition that they are a form of life, and caring for that life. Obviously I don't worship all these deities- it's a distant acknowledgement they are there for many of them.

If I am asked to participate in a ritual for any culture's gods- I will do it as an act of goodwill and kindness for the deity, unless the ritual violates my non-violence ethics.

Not all Buddhists venerate the traditionally held gods in any way, but the texts that talk about them show Indra and Brahma as the two most important- if any could be said to be.

This is said to be because Indra protected the Buddha through his life and took refuge in the Triple Gem due to Shakyamuni's teaching. Lord Brahma also protected the Buddha, and knew him from the moment of his birth- because it is said Brahma took refuge in one of the Buddhas before Gautama.

A final note about polytheistic creation: as a Buddhist I don't believe any of the gods created the universe itself, but things about it and in it. That's highly likely.
 
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Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
So I've always wondered at the typical theistic view of God. He is infinite and that's great and all but it makes me wonder why he wastes his time with us. I guess he doesn't really conceive of time but my point is just that humans are a tiny, tiny, TINY part of the universe. God showing us special favor is weird to me. But he's still all-powerful according to traditional ideas so why not it's not like he's losing anything.

I doubt S/he does waste his/her time with us - the universe being so big and all, as pointed out - and that might explain all the non-believers. S/He just couldn't get around to personally deliver the good tidings. Just think of all the travelling involved!
 
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GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
I don't really trouble myself with the relations between the gods and the universe, just with their relations with me! Anything else is likely to beyond my understanding.

Philosophical arguments give me a choice between a physical universe which is meaningless and inexplicable, which doesn't seem to fit our experience of it, or one which was divinely created. But whether that creation was a one-god job or involved a team, I don't know. The Yoruba say one, the Maya say four: take your pick. It's really philosophical speculation, while the gods are part of our actual experience.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
So I've always wondered at the typical theistic view of God. He is infinite and that's great and all but it makes me wonder why he wastes his time with us. I guess he doesn't really conceive of time but my point is just that humans are a tiny, tiny, TINY part of the universe. God showing us special favor is weird to me. But he's still all-powerful according to traditional ideas so why not it's not like he's losing anything.

But what of polytheism? And I know there are a myriad different kinds of polytheisms out there so I'm sorry I can't be more specific but I'm speaking just very generally to those who believe in multiple deities. What is the role of these beings in the wider context of the universe? Are they somehow Earth-bound or do they reign over all the universe? Obviously they are not infinite beings but I guess you don't have to be infinite to have universal significance or power.
Here is a post #84 Nicholas W., Tuesday at 12:24 AM providing a view from the Theosophical perspective that helps to explain that God/Kosmos underlies all that is, and remember even the monotheistic religions include celestial hierarchies of lessor divine entities, whether one uses the names angels, archangels, etc., or the names of lessor deities of so called polytheism, of the ONE absolute GOD or Kosmos.

"The whole Kosmos is guided, controlled, and
animated by almost endless series of Hierarchies of
sentient Beings, each having a mission to perform,
and who - whether we give to them one name or
another, and call them Dhyan-Chohans or Angels - are
“messengers” in the sense only that they are the agents
of Karmic and Cosmic Laws. They vary infinitely in their
respective degrees of consciousness and intelligence;
and to call them all pure Spirits without any of the
earthly alloy “which time is wont to prey upon” is only
to indulge in poetical fancy. For each of these Beings
either was, or prepares to become, a man, if not in the
present then in a past or a coming cycle (Manvantara)."
 
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