Poor Arguments against Theism

[1137]

I didn't misrepresent you. You did imply that you've seen that behaviour.

So no others then?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think I might have seen it once from an obvious troll. Not sure I'd count that one, though.

That said, something occurs to me that's worth pointing out. It's not uncommon that I see people conflating religion and theism, so when they discuss sacred texts as ways to "disprove religion," from their perspective, this is analogous to disproving that particular type of theism (or at times, generalizing beyond that as the case may be). But on the whole, I agree that this one isn't particularly common - where it happens it's usually in the more roundabout way that I just described.

What do you mean by "that particular type of theism"?

Something else: it's very rare that I've ever seen people try to "disprove" the existence of some god. That approach tends to be reserved for gods that are literally impossible (e.g. gods whose attributes are internally inconsistent).

The most common approach that I've seen is to basically argue that the theist should take a positivist stance on the issue of gods (or, sometimes, that they should consistently apply the positivist stance they use in other areas of their life by applying it to gods as well) and not accept gods without justification. That's the point of analogies like Russell's Teapot and Sagan's invisible dragon in the garage: we don't have to outright disprove an idea to legitimately give it no credence.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So no others then?

A boatload, but let's finish dealing with your first straw man before we go on to the others.

 

[1137]

A boatload, but let's finish dealing with your first straw man before we go on to the others.

So you've never once seen any situation where someone made an argument based on "the Bible says X, X is not true, therefore theism is flawed" type reasoning? As in they generalize the flaw of the Bible to a flaw with theism, especially with younger, Kore aggressive, less educated atheists? I'm going to straight out call you a liar.

 

[McBell]

So you've never once seen any situation where someone made an argument based on "the Bible says X, X is not true, therefore theism is flawed" type reasoning? As in they generalize the flaw of the Bible to a flaw with theism, especially with younger, Kore aggressive, less educated atheists? I'm going to straight out call you a liar.

Are you sure you want to set up that particular precedent...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So you've never once seen any situation where someone made an argument based on "the Bible says X, X is not true, therefore theism is flawed" type reasoning?

No, I haven't.

As in they generalize the flaw of the Bible to a flaw with theism, especially with younger, Kore aggressive, less educated atheists?

Nope.

I'm going to straight out call you a liar.

Well, if you can't back up your claims, insults will do just as well as anything else.

 

[1137]

No, I haven't.


Nope.


Well, if you can't back up your claims, insults will do just as well as anything else.

Interesting. Not having much philosophical interaction would explain a lot! So apparently it's a straw man to say we can't reject theism based on holy books, except literal interpretations. What's the next straw man?

 

[jonathan180iq]

I give permission for you and @1137 to quote my other posts here on RF and I invite other atheists to also give their permission.

Gladly

 

[Windwalker]

So you've never once seen any situation where someone made an argument based on "the Bible says X, X is not true, therefore theism is flawed" type reasoning? As in they generalize the flaw of the Bible to a flaw with theism, especially with younger, Kore aggressive, less educated atheists? I'm going to straight out call you a liar.

This happens all the time. The God they see is the mythic-literal God, and because people quote the Bible in defense of that interpretation of God, they go after the Bible as factually incorrect to kick the legs our from underneath that God. Don't let any try to fool you. It's very common.

I remember Elaine Pagels once said speaking of Richard Dawkins as the "Village Atheist", as she put it, "He's not talking about any God I believe in". It they same thing applied to attacking the Bible, "Talking snakes and donkeys and whatnot. If they're not true, obviously what reason do you have to believe in God?" This is pretty much the essence of the line of reasoning. What they should say is this. The mythic view of God is not the rational view of God. The mythic reading of the Bible is not the rationalist reading of the Bible. That alone would be accurate.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The fact there are even arguements are telling as to weither theism even has any basis by which to argue any counterpoint to begin with. Least of all, the manner by which theism is supported by discounting valid venues by which athiests respond.

Kinda like shooting oneself in the foot.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Interesting. Not having much philosophical interaction would explain a lot! So apparently it's a straw man to say we can't reject theism based on holy books, except literal interpretations. What's the next straw man?

It's a straw man to make up a phantom atheist who does things that actual atheists don't do.

I'm still waiting for that example, BTW. Even one atheist - other than the ones in your imagination - who behaves the way you claim. You don't have to quote from RF - it's a great big internet out there.

Edit: and at this point, you have 2 atheists on RF who have given you permission to quote them.

 

[McBell]

This happens all the time. The God they see is the mythic-literal God, and because people quote the Bible in defense of that interpretation of God, they go after the Bible as factually incorrect to kick the legs our from underneath that God. Don't let any try to fool you. It's very common.

Which is a strawman of the OP strawman that presenting a flaw in the Bible shows all theism wrong....

 

[McBell]

Edit: and at this point, you have 2 atheists on RF who have given you permission to quote them.

Make that three:

I, Mestemia, being mostly of sound mind do hereby give permission for my posts on RF to be quoted in entirely.​

 

[Windwalker]

Which is a strawman of the OP strawman that presenting a flaw in the Bible shows all theism wrong....

It's years and years of experiencing hearing it and watching it. No strawman at all. Take for instance some recent threads here about the silliness of God hearing and answering prayers.... it's all the Santa Claus God and notions from the Bible why it can't be right...

 

[McBell]

Make that three:

I, Mestemia, being mostly of sound mind do hereby give permission for my posts on RF to be quoted in entirely.​

Let the quote mining commence!!

 

[McBell]

It's years and years of experience hearing it and watching it. No strawman at all.

Is it that you do not understand what is actually being said?

Please present an example of an atheist saying that because there is a flaw in the Bible, all theism is wrong.
I mean, you have hearing and watching it for years and years, an example should be easy enough to present.


And I am talking about an actual quote, not you paraphrasing or telling a story.

 

[Windwalker]

Is it that you do not understand what is actually being said?

Please present an example of an atheist saying that because there is a flaw in the Bible, all theism is wrong.

Where would I begin? My God! The whole debunking of the Bible in and of itself? There are countless such examples. The whole arguments about how God couldn't possibly exist because of how he is portrayed in scripture? Are you serious? Why do you think there are entire atheist sites devoted to disproving the Bible, such as evilbible and the like? You think it's because they want people to evolve their ideas about God into mature and responsible ones? No! They are anti-theist, through and through. You think they do this for what other possible reason? Please answer that.

And I am talking about an actual quote, not you paraphrasing or telling a story.

Since when is my telling of my own personal experience with countless atheists just a "story"? That has a ton of validity to it. Experience is evidence. I was a moderator of such a site for over 10 years of my life which was full of Bible bashing and the like trying to prove how God can't exist. I think that qualifies me to speak to this as a credible voice. How about yourself?

 

[McBell]

Where would I begin? My God! The whole debunking of the Bible in and of itself? There are countless such examples. The whole arguments about how God couldn't possibly exist because of how he is portrayed in scripture? Are you serious? Why do you think there are entire atheist sites devoted to disproving the Bible, such as evilbible and the like? You think it's because they want people to evolve their ideas about God into mature and responsible ones? No! They are anti-theist, through and through. You think they do this for what other possible reason? Please answer that.


Since when is my telling of my own personal experience with countless atheists just a "story"? That has a ton of validity to it. Experience is evidence. I was a moderator of such a site for over 10 years of my life which was full of Bible bashing and the like trying to prove how God can't exist. I think that qualifies me to speak to this as a credible voice. How about yourself?

And yet you are completely unable to present even one quote..?

 

[1137]

It's a straw man to make up a phantom atheist who does things that actual atheists don't do.

I'm still waiting for that example, BTW. Even one atheist - other than the ones in your imagination - who behaves the way you claim. You don't have to quote from RF - it's a great big internet out there.

Edit: and at this point, you have 2 atheists on RF who have given you permission to quote them.

Sure, that was insanely easy to find since it's so common.

https://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-bible-is-fiction-a-collection-of-evidence/#gs.yNj92DM

http://godisimaginary.com/i5.htm

http://www.nairaland.com/79465/10-reasons-why-god-doesnt

Can we stop stalling now and get to number 2?

 

[suncowiam]

Why do theists spend so much more time defending their ideologies than actually trying to prove them?