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Poor Arguments against Theism

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I see a lot of truly terrible arguments used against theism, not in specific categories but as a whole. I think that a lot of these arguments do work in certain contexts, when directed to certain interpretations or specific religions. The point if this is to address arguments that address theism over all. If one is truly interested in philosophy, the pursuit of truth, then I highly suggest you watch for these from yourself and others. I know I will be trying harder to!


Arguments from Holy Books


This is where an individual argues against theism based on the nature of their holy text(s). Often this is specifically the bible, but it can be any holy text at all. If holy texts are indeed invalid, this does not imply anything further than the rejection of the holy text as literal truth. That’s it, it certainly cannot be stretched to disprove all theistic positions. This is doubly important when individuals reject one specific holy text, such as the bible, and then conclude that every form of theism must be completely wrong.


Arguments based on False Association


Very often gods get compared to unicorns, tea pots, invisible, pink dragons, so forth and so on. At face value these seem almost convincing, but logically speaking they are flawed. For example, say that I claim to have an invisible unicorn in my garage, and compare it to the god of another theist. Since I am making a comparison, I am stating that my unicorn is of the same characteristics as their god, meaning that it is necessary, non-contingent, likely outside of space and time, indescribable, and so on. We can then look at my unicorn and make several observations: it is apparently limited to my garage, not outside of space and not outside of time (since my garage is temporal and rather new compared to the universe at large). How is my unicorn necessary? Without it would some fundamental aspect of reality be lost, such as order? Why do we know exactly what a unicorn looks like if it is indescribable? If the unicorn is a god claim, then it will have to be defended like a god claim. It may seem witty, but you’re comparing two separate things and pretending they are on the same ground.


Arguments against Bias


Everyone is susceptible to bias, basically end of story. Field of study will likely have a far greater impact on one’s control over bias than any philosophical path, and even those individuals have biases. So to point out that “people can be biased” is a waste of time, and dishonest when you ignore your own susceptibility.


“All” and “No” Arguments


These are the arguments where a claim is made such as “All theistic arguments have been shown unsound”, or “No theistic arguments can ever be shown sound”. These claims require omniscience. The former assumes that one is aware of literally every theistic argument ever made (theoretically impossible), and the latter assumes to know and be able to account for all possible theistic arguments. These are just plain bad logic, low level stuff. It’s a simple fix too, just avoid all and no statements except in very specific situations. Science itself is literally required to do this, as it has to be able to update and adapt to new knowledge. There is a nifty tool known as the “square of opposition” which illustrates this very clearly, and can help you call bull**** when people make such claims.


“You Can’t Show” Arguments


Another basic one that seems convincing on the outside, yet is logically flawed. Just because someone cannot show something does not make that thing untrue. This is a serious problem that happens on all sides of the debates, and is basically a useless objection anyways.


Argument that Arguments are not Evidence


More and more often it seems that individuals are claiming logical argumentation is not a form of evidence. This is problematic in a few different ways. For one, why not? We can reject positions based on them being logically flawed, in many cases specifically due to a lack of evidence! Logic is the foundation of all reality as we understand it. As an example, one can reject a square circle without ever appealing to evidence. It’s not that you were told there was no square circle (testimony), were taught it (memory), have looked literally everywhere in existence for one (sensory experience), or anything of the sort. It is simply a violation of logic, and so we can reject it, or accept the claim that no square circles exist. (This is also an example of an appropriate “no” argument”. Another problem is that evidence itself is useless, possibly even incomprehensible, without logical arguments. How do we decide what evidence is valid? Through what process do we determine something like “empirical evidence is greater than other evidence?”


Argument from Popularity


For some baffling reason, this argument seems to be used more and more often. This is the argument that (1) “Theist A does not believe _____X____”, (2) “Theists B – Z believe ____X___”, (3) “Therefore we can reject and ignore Theist A’s position.” This is nonsense, pure and simple.


Argument from the Definition of Faith


Throughout history, theists have been providing evidence they believe to be valid, and reasoning they believe to be sound, for the existence of their god(s). Whether or not you accept their evidence and arguments or not, they were indeed believing based on evidence and reason, even if poorly. Philosophers like Aristotle and Aquinas tried grounding their philosophy in empirical evidence (such as causality) for this very reason. In fact, the definition of faith often used to argue against theism is “faith without or against reason and evidence,” which comes specifically from Hebrews chapter 11. Further, the idea that reason and evidence should be rejected over belief is a very specific subset of faith that already has a philosophical term: fideism. Instead, faith can be seen as believing beyond what the reason and evidence confirm, though not necessarily against it. All that being said, relying on definitions over the intended meaning of any word is absurd.


Arguments from Skepticism


Somehow the term skepticism has moved from meaning one who questions everything to one who questions everything that is not strict naturalism. While skepticism finds it impossible to be satisfied with most answers, the modern take on it seem quite satisfied with naturalism, reductionism, and so forth. This really becomes a problem similar to the arguments against bias, because modern skepticism is, itself, not actually skeptical. It cannot accuse theists of not being skeptical enough while mostly ignoring the most serious problems of epistemology (such as the hard problem of solipsism).


Arguments from Prediction


This is another common one, which assumes to know how questions will be answered in the future. For example, accepting reductionism on the basis that, one day, we may be able to show that reductionism is true. This ties in with the all and no statement very well, because it again requires omniscience, or at least some sort of ability to literally see the future.

All the arguments I've seen against theism are a brush over for Christianity. I have only seen one argument against all theism as beliefs being psychologically based. here isn't anything much to add onto that unless one is talking about specific religions in how our psychological mind defines what, say, a Pagan ritual is in contrast to how a Christian sees it. And likewise a Hindu.

Another thing to consider is not many arguments know other religions outside the basic major ones to understand their bias. I agree with the argument of generalizations; and, on the other hand, we are not aliens to each other. If one religion believes in the supernatural, why would we deny the source of the supernatural (pretending it's the mind) in other faiths? Are we saying that a Pagan's view of the supernatural is different than a Christian's? Not different as in different definitions of it, but different as in supernatural exist to one but doesn't to another even though they both have the term in their respective religion (blessings vs. magick for example) regardless of what they call it.

Why would we say generalizations of the supernatural is not a good argument? That's like saying that I eat from a fork over here in America and Jane eats from a spoon in Japan. Yes, we are using different instruments, eating in different ways, define eating different probably, but we are not aliens to each other, we are both eating using utensils.

The other arguments make sense to an extent. Of course, I won't go through them all but the argument of generalizations stuck out. Just remember the lack of knowledge people have of other religions besides their former ones. Also be mindful many people are ex-christians have some type of bias against their religion. I haven't had that before, so if I argued against religion as a whole (the supernatural ones) it would be psychological as the source.

It's a guess pretending I don't believe in the spirits. Since I know spirits exist, it would be hard press to find any evidence against it unless they are using the "not provable argument" but that, too, has some validity. Think about it. We can't know one hundred percent. However, think about this.

What you are arguing against is a claim. It doesn't have to be a real unicorn. It's just a statement claim that X exists. There is so much popularity in belief (not fact) that X exists that people build arguments against it. I'm actually in favor for people who believe in X because they are being honest with their claim even if they don't believe that's just what it is. On the other hand, if the supernatural is not known (agnostic) or doesn't exist (atheist) pretending god isn't in the definition for a moment, and it's just claim

these arguments against theism really doesn't make sense in reality. Unless you say claims actually exist to state something against it, all we are doing is arguing over really nothing.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I failed to see where in any of your links the claim that all religion if false because of errors in the bible.

perhaps you can point them out?

Really, you didn't see, for example, how the god is imaginary site states "The reason why the Bible contains so much nonsense is because God is imaginary"? You didn't even bother with the third link that raises ten strictly biblical objections to deny gods in general? Perhaps it's not surprising that the arguments in the OP are so common, as many atheists don't seem the slightest bit interested in truth anymore.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Really, you didn't see, for example, how the god is imaginary site states "The reason why the Bible contains so much nonsense is because God is imaginary"? You didn't even bother with the third link that raises ten strictly biblical objections to deny gods in general? Perhaps it's not surprising that the arguments in the OP are so common, as many atheists don't seem the slightest bit interested in truth anymore.

The word 'God' is an umbrella term but it does not include all god concepts.
 

McBell

Unbound
Really, you didn't see, for example, how the god is imaginary site states "The reason why the Bible contains so much nonsense is because God is imaginary"? You didn't even bother with the third link that raises ten strictly biblical objections to deny gods in general? Perhaps it's not surprising that the arguments in the OP are so common, as many atheists don't seem the slightest bit interested in truth anymore.
Now you are moving the goal posts.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
None of those links are talking about theism as a whole.

Yes, god is imaginary, with it's conclusion that "the reason why the Bible contains so much nonsense is because God is imaginary", certainly suggests that the author is only discussing one god.

Perhaps we need another argument on the list to cover when atheists just plug their ears and shut their eyes? I mean, if I say "the reason the god delusion is so immature is because atheism is wrong", would you not assume I was trying to refute all atheism based on one book? That's right, special pleading is fine so long as it's not used by theists ;)
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Now you are moving the goal posts.

Lol, so you'd rather make a fool out of yourself than admit that at least one atheist out there is dumb enough to reject theism based on the rejection of holy texts? You need to learn to put ego second.
 

McBell

Unbound
Yes, god is imaginary, with it's conclusion that "the reason why the Bible contains so much nonsense is because God is imaginary", certainly suggests that the author is only discussing one god.

Perhaps we need another argument on the list to cover when atheists just plug their ears and shut their eyes? I mean, if I say "the reason the god delusion is so immature is because atheism is wrong", would you not assume I was trying to refute all atheism based on one book? That's right, special pleading is fine so long as it's not used by theists ;)
With as bad a job you are doing trying to defend your strawman, I don't give a nickel for your chances at refuting all atheism.
 

McBell

Unbound
Lol, so you'd rather make a fool out of yourself than admit that at least one atheist out there is dumb enough to reject theism based on the rejection of holy texts? You need to learn to put ego second.
You would do good to take your own advice.
You have not shown even once instance of anyone, let alone an atheist, claiming flaws in the Bible refute all theism.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
You would do good to take your own advice.
You have not shown even once instance of anyone, let alone a theist, claiming flaws in the Bible refute all theism.

I literally just provided 3. Feel free to defend them based on whatever you can, likely that they simply didn't elaborate on the specifics of their rejection.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Yes, god is imaginary, with it's conclusion that "the reason why the Bible contains so much nonsense is because God is imaginary", certainly suggests that the author is only discussing one god.

Perhaps we need another argument on the list to cover when atheists just plug their ears and shut their eyes? I mean, if I say "the reason the god delusion is so immature is because atheism is wrong", would you not assume I was trying to refute all atheism based on one book? That's right, special pleading is fine so long as it's not used by theists ;)

The upper case in God means that it is the abrahamic god that is being talked about.
That's fairly standard. Not to mention that context is key to understanding any text.
 

McBell

Unbound
I literally just provided 3. Feel free to defend them based on whatever you can, likely that they simply didn't elaborate on the specifics of their rejection.
they do not meet the requirements YOU set down in the OP.

Now using the precedent YOU set up in post #24, you are liar.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
The upper case in God means that it is the abrahamic god that is being talked about.
That's fairly standard. Not to mention that context is key to understanding any text.

And that's more than fair, people without any respect for actual philosophy often throw their words around haphazardly without clarification. But even if only Christianity is being rejected by based on its holy text, my first point still holds! It's not logical to reject any god claim based on a holy text, all you can do is reject the validity of that holy text.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
they do not meet the requirements YOU set down in the OP.

Now using the precedent YOU set up in post #24, you are liar.
they do not meet the requirements YOU set down in the OP.

Now using the precedent YOU set up in post #24, you are liar.


Eh, I probably just have a bit more respect for careful usage of words because I give a **** about philosophy, about objective truth. It's hardly my fault if people want to vaguely fling around such drivel (especially that third link) and it gets interpreted as I have interpreted it. But alas, I will even concede that my first argument is a straw man! Feel free to show the next possible straw man, @9-10ths_Penguin as well.
 
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