A move in the right direction
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Pope Francis allows priests to bless same-sex couples (not marriage)
- Thread starter Evangelicalhumanist
- Start date
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Well said, and I agree.
I would ask you to review every one of my posts in this thread, including the OP, and find a single phrase even hinting at deep-seated hatred for Christians. And then to respond appropriately -- if you have the decency.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Obviously, the majority of Christian Trump supporters lack moral consistency when it comes to the R or D associated with a U.S. president. In my opinion, his Christian supporters are hypocritical regarding his sexually deviant conduct compared to their moral outrage relating to another former president.
An Open Letter to Trump’s Evangelical Defenders
Trump-Loving Christians Owe Bill Clinton an Apology
Evangelicals slammed Bill Clinton's sexual misconduct. So why does Trump get a pass?
The following prominent conservative Christian leaders have also publicly exposed their hypocrisy and lack of character when it concerns Trump:
Pat Robertson.
Pat Robertson Calls for Clinton's Impeachment
Standing by Donald Trump, Pat Robertson calls lewd video ‘macho talk’
Jerry Falwell, Jr.
Watch: Jerry Falwell Jr. goes after Clinton at Republican National Convention
Evangelical Jerry Falwell Jr. defends Trump: Jesus “never told Caesar how to run Rome”
James Dobson.
He publicly condemned Bill Clinton in 1998: "Character does matter. You can't run a family, let alone a country without it. How foolish to believe that a person who lacks honesty and moral integrity is qualified to lead a nation and the world."
Source: What James Dobson Said in 1998 About Moral Character and the Presidency
He enthusiastically endorsed Donald Trump in 2016. And in defense of Donald Trump, he said, "I’m not under any illusions that he is an outstanding moral example. It’s a cliché but true: We are electing a commander-in-chief, not a theologian-in-chief.”
Source: I’m an evangelical. The religious right leaders who support Trump don’t speak for me.
And there is also Franklin Graham.
Franklin Graham’s Astonishing Ungodly Hypocrisy
I'll take a milquetoast octogenarian over an authoritarian traitor any day. But hey, keep up the homophobic jokes. They make you seem super likeable!
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
The homophobic jokes are almost as likeable as the anti-Semitic posts we've seen on this forum in recent days.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Hahahahaha.
Really? How many indictments are there against Joe Biden at the moment? I've forgotten the number, although I can readily recall that there are 91 against Trump, plus a judgement against in a matter of sexual assault in a civil case.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Mabe the guys in the senate chamber sex romp were reenacting Hamas tunneling?
Colt
Well-Known Member
The Fed.gov is a Democrat institution. They don't indict themselves.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Getting back on topic of the OP.
Like others, I believe that this is a positive step in the right direction for the Catholic Church.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Over the years it bleeds through your posts but I don't really care, Christian haters are everywhere. Nothing unique about it.
They were imaging tunneling into sum-***. But it was probably yours for all the gay bashing.
The loudest homophobes have the deepest closets, imo.
But you see, I'm just like what I hear from so many Christians -- I don't hate the sinner, I hate the sin. The sin of rejecting very real human beings who just happen to be different, for example. You know, like LGBTQ+ types. Or who perpetrate or threaten hatred against those of other religions (so often back and forth, as you know). And of course, that is not just Christians: Muslims and Hindus and Baha'is and others all do the same, to one extent or another.
Anyone, whatever their religion (or none), who can live their own life without denigrating or rejecting those who don't share their beliefs or their mores or their world-views, but live peaceably amonst them, is just fine by me. I know and like many people from all those religions I mentioned (and more), of every colour and nationality and language (it's impossible not to in multicultural Toronto).
So if a Christian Pastor like the Reverend Paul D. Smith, in Toronto in the 1970's incites hatred and death threats from his pulpit in the People's Church here in Toronto, then I was there with gay friends (some of who were/are Christians) to challenge him for that. When he thought better of it, we behaved perfectly and left without incident.
So deal with that. I don't hate Christians -- or Jews or Muslims or Jains or Hindus or Bahai's or Buddhists or Shintoists or anyone else because of their religious beliefs. I reserve my dislike for the actions of humans of every kind who refuse to accept humans of many other kinds, and treat them badly. You may call that what you like: I call it hating the sin, not the sinner.
And I want to point out, the hatred in your attempt at humour above, was clear to everyone reading the thread. And it did what you wanted it to do -- it belittled other human beings for not being like you.
The ignore-list is you friend.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
Shouldn't Christians use the Bible though? The Bible and the Hebrew god are not anti-abortion.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
Jesus put people before dogma, and the spirit of the law ahead of the letter or the law. This seems like a positive gesture.
For anyone interested, see footnote 345 in paragraph 302 of Amoris Laetitia by Pope Francis from 2016, which refers to a 2000 statement by the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts called Declaration Concerning the Admission to Holy Communion of Faithful Who are Divorced and Remarried.
The passage in Amoris Laetitia to which the footnote is attached states "...a negative judgment about an objective situation does not imply a judgement about the imputability or culpability of the person." That can refer to divorcees, unmarried heterosexual sex or homosexual sex.
Amoris Laetitia goes on - "Hence it can no longer simply be said that all those in any 'irregular' situation are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace...
Many people, knowing and accepting the possibility of living “as brothers and sisters” [celibacy] which the Church offers them, point out that if certain expressions of [sexual] intimacy are lacking, “it often happens that faithfulness is endangered and the good of the children suffers” (Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World Gaudium et Spes, 51)
Therefore, while clearly stating the Church’s teaching, pastors are to avoid judgements that do not take into account the complexity of various situations"
This is not a new theology. In the early church, concubinage - an unmarried sexual relationship between a heterosexual couple - was often tolerated by the Church along these lines, eg from the seventeenth canon of the Council of Toledo in 400 AD:
First Council of Toledo - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
"If a Christian has a believing wife and also a concubine, he may not be admitted to communion; but if he has no wife and only one concubine, he may be admitted"
In our modern gender egalitarian culture, we call what they knew as concubinage "cohabitation", basically (although concubinage in the bible is more looser even than that, the Romans formalized it a bit more).
Further to my above, from a Reuters article:
The document, whose Latin title is Fiducia Supplicans (Supplicating Trust), said the form of the blessing "should not be fixed ritually by ecclesial authorities to avoid producing confusion with the blessing proper to the Sacrament of Marriage".
It said it can be applied to those who "do not claim a legitimation of their own status, but who beg that all that is true, good, and humanly valid in their lives and their relationships be enriched, healed, and elevated by the presence of the Holy Spirit".
"Ultimately, a blessing offers people a means to increase their trust in God," it said, adding that it "must be nurtured, not hindered".
You see, it's precisely what I've said in my preceding posts. I hadn't read the above, I knew based on the theological framework from which this arises.Here are some relevant paragraphs from document:
Declaration Fiducia Supplicans On the Pastoral Meaning of Blessings (18 December 2023)
Declaration Fiducia Supplicans On the Pastoral Meaning of Blessings (18 December 2023)
www.vatican.va
III. Blessings of Couples in Irregular Situations and of Couples of the Same Sex
31. Within the horizon outlined here appears the possibility of blessings for couples in irregular situations and for couples of the same sex, the form of which should not be fixed ritually by ecclesial authorities to avoid producing confusion with the blessing proper to the Sacrament of Marriage. In such cases, a blessing may be imparted that not only has an ascending value but also involves the invocation of a blessing that descends from God upon those who—recognizing themselves to be destitute and in need of his help—do not claim a legitimation of their own status, but who beg that all that is true, good, and humanly valid in their lives and their relationships be enriched, healed, and elevated by the presence of the Holy Spirit. These forms of blessing express a supplication that God may grant those aids that come from the impulses of his Spirit—what classical theology calls “actual grace”—so that human relationships may mature and grow in fidelity to the Gospel, that they may be freed from their imperfections and frailties, and that they may express themselves in the ever-increasing dimension of the divine love.
32. Indeed, the grace of God works in the lives of those who do not claim to be righteous but who acknowledge themselves humbly as sinners, like everyone else. This grace can orient everything according to the mysterious and unpredictable designs of God. Therefore, with its untiring wisdom and motherly care, the Church welcomes all who approach God with humble hearts, accompanying them with those spiritual aids that enable everyone to understand and realize God’s will fully in their existence.[22]
33. This is a blessing that, although not included in any liturgical rite,[23] unites intercessory prayer with the invocation of God’s help by those who humbly turn to him. God never turns away anyone who approaches him! Ultimately, a blessing offers people a means to increase their trust in God. The request for a blessing, thus, expresses and nurtures openness to the transcendence, mercy, and closeness to God in a thousand concrete circumstances of life, which is no small thing in the world in which we live. It is a seed of the Holy Spirit that must be nurtured, not hindered [...]
41. What has been said in this Declaration regarding the blessings of same-sex couples is sufficient to guide the prudent and fatherly discernment of ordained ministers in this regard. Thus, beyond the guidance provided above, no further responses should be expected about possible ways to regulate details or practicalities regarding blessings of this type.[26]
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Altfish
Veteran Member
The Catholic Church - welcome to the 20th Century (Not the 21st).
Or in any other way. Do you know are they doing so?