Pope Francis calls unfettered capitalism 'tyranny' in manifesto for papacy

[metis]

Dear Metis, just to note the Pope mentioned Judaism in this text as well Here is the passage:

Thank you so much as I hadn't heard nor read that.

God Bless you!

And the same to you and yours!

Shalom

 

[Vouthon]

Thought this was relevant:

Pope Francis Goes Off On Capitalism - YouTube

An excellent video, interesting commentary :clap

 

[Father Heathen]

I agree that the bible does these things, but can't capitalism (in a perfect world) exist without greed and materialism?

Of course. However the bible renounces coveting and hoarding wealth, whereas the accumulation of wealth and maximization of profit are the aims of capitalism.

*I'm* not saying capitalism is a bad thing (I'm a fiscal conservative). I'm just saying that the bible doesn't exactly appear to encourage capitalistic thinking.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, the bible is largely anti-capitalistic; it denounces greed and materialism while encouraging sharing and giving alms.

No wonder Xianity repelled me when I first heard of it!

 

[Vouthon]

Here's an article with charts demonstrating the factuality of the assessments the pope made with regards to economic inequality and "unfettered...deification" of the market to use Pope Francis' words:

Pope Francis has a few thoughts about the global economy. We added these 13 charts.

Interesting empirical evidence to support his critique.

 

[Vouthon]

Another interesting article just published in the UK Guardian newspaper:

Pope Francis understands economics better than most politicians

Inequality is the biggest economic issue of our time. It's only surprising it took so long for a globally prominent figure to say it

Pope Francis is a pontiff who has constructively broken all the rules of popery – so far to widespread acclaim. He's faulted the Catholic church for its negative obsession with gays and birth control, and now he has expanded his mandate to economics with a groundbreaking screed denouncing "the new idolatry of money".

As the Pope wrote in his "apostolic exhortation":


The worship of the ancient golden calf has returned in a new and ruthless guise in the idolatry of money and the dictatorship of an impersonal economy lacking a truly human purpose. The worldwide crisis affecting finance and the economy lays bare their imbalances and, above all, their lack of real concern for human beings.

His thoughts on income inequality are searing:


How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points? This is a case of exclusion. Can we continue to stand by when food is thrown away while people are starving? This is a case of inequality.

The pope's screed on "the economy of exclusion and inequality" will disappoint those who considers themselves free-market capitalists, but they would do well to listen to the message. Francis gives form to the emotion and injustice of post-financial-crisis outrage in a way that has been rare since Occupy Wall Street disbanded. There has been a growing chorus of financial insiders – from the late Merrill Lynch executive Herb Allison to organizations like Better Markets – it's time for a change in how we approach capitalism. It's not about discarding capitalism, or hating money or profit; it's about pursuing profits ethically, and rejecting the premise that exploitation is at the center of profit. When 53% of financial executives say they can't get ahead without some cheating, even though they want to work for ethical organizations, there's a real problem.

Unlike Occupy, which turned its rage outward, Pope Francis bolstered his anger with two inward-facing emotions familiar to any Catholic-school graduate: shame and guilt, to make the economy a matter of personal responsibility.

This is important. Income inequality is not someone else's problem. Nearly all of us are likely to experience it. Inequality has been growing in the US since the 1970s. Economist Emmanuel Saez found that the incomes of the top 1% grew by 31.4% in the three years after the financial crisis, while the majority of people struggled with a disappointing economy. The other 99% of the population grew their incomes 0.4% during the same period.

As a result, federal and state spending on social welfare programs has been forced to grow to $1tn just to handle the volume of US households in trouble. Yet income inequality has been locked out of of the mainstream economic conversation, where it is seen largely as a sideshow for progressive bleeding hearts.

In the discussions of why the US is not recovering, economists often mention metrics like economic growth and housing. They rarely mention the metrics that directly tell us we are failing our economic goals, like poverty and starvation. Those metrics of income inequality tell an accurate story of the depth of our economic malaise that new-home sales can't. One-fifth of Americans, or 47 million people, are on food stamps; 50% of children born to single mothers live in poverty; and over 13 million people are out of work. Children are now not likely to do as well as their parents did as downward mobility takes hold for the first time in generations.

The bottom line, which Pope Francis correctly identifies, is that inequality is the biggest economic issue of our time – for everyone, not just the poor. Nearly any major economic metric – unemployment, growth, consumer confidence – comes down to the fact that the vast majority of Americans are struggling in some way. You don't have to begrudge the rich their fortunes or ask for redistribution. It's just hard to justify ignoring the financial problems of 47 million people who don't have enough to eat. Until they have enough money to fill their pantries, we won't have a widespread economic recovery. You can't have a recovery if one-sixth of the world's economically leading country is eating on $1.50 a day.

It's only surprising that it took so long for anyone – in this case, Pope Francis – to become the first globally prominent figure to figure this out and bring attention to income inequality.

Income inequality is the issue that will govern whether we ever emerge from the struggling economy recovery and it determine elections in 2014. The support for Elizabeth Warren to rise above her seat in the US Senate, for instance, largely centers on her crusade against inequality. The White House's chirpy protestations that the economy is improving are not fooling anyone.

Into this morass of economic confusion steps Francis with clarifying force:


Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting.

It's a historic and bold statement, mainly because it's rarely heard from clergy. Money has always been at odds with religion, going back to the times when God had a fighting chance against Mammon. Moses grew enraged by the golden calf, Jesus by moneychangers in the temple, Muhammad by lending money at interest, or usury. It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven, the Bible tells us.

There have been criticisms from prominent men of religion before, but they didn't stick. in 2008, the Archbishop of Canterbury endorsed Marx against the forces of "unbridled capitalism", and the Archbishop of York disdained traders as "bank robbers and asset strippers", but those cries went unheeded in the subsequent flood of corporate profits.

At the time, those criticisms seemed extreme, throwing pitchforks into frozen ground. Francis is speaking at a when the ground has been thawed. Outrage against the financial sector is lurking so close to the surface that the US government can extract a $13bn fine from the nation's largest bank, throwing it into its first financial loss in nine years, and find significant approval.

Still, popes have been largely content to leave these particular issues of economic inequality behind in favor of focusing on social issues. There was, after all, a problem of throwing stones. The church's rich trappings and vast wealth, as well as its scandal-plagued Vatican bank, made an ill fit to preach too loudly about austerity.

Pope Francis, in his simple black shoes and unassuming car and house, is the first pontiff in a long time to reject flashy shows of power and live by the principle of simplicity. That makes him uniquely qualified to make the Vatican an outpost of Occupy Wall Street. His message about spiritual salvation applies mainly to Catholics but it would be sensible for economists and lawmakers to recognize his core message about the importance of income inequality applies to those even those who have no belief in religion.

Capitalism has always seen itself as an amoral pursuit, where the guiding stars were not "good" or "bad", but only "profit" and "loss". It's going to be harder to sustain that belief over the next few years.

Pope Francis understands economics better than most politicians | Heidi Moore | Comment is free | theguardian.com

 

[Knight of Albion]

I like Pope Francis. He seems genuine and sincere.

And he raises a valid point here. Most of the problems facing mankind today, everything from poverty to immigration, stem from the greed of some impacting negatively on all the others.
The richer First World nations need to share their wealth more with the rest of the world so that everyone has enough.

And they could do more to help their own people too. The number if people relying on handouts from 'food banks' here in the UK has soared in the last year or two. I know America has the same problem.
Quite shameful really. We aren't poor countries and appear to have no problem funding overseas wars...
The money is there, but not the will.

 

[Knight of Albion]

It should be added though that the Catholic Church is not short of a bob or two itself....

Pope Francis may be laying himself open to criticism given the Church's vast wealth.

 

[Quagmire]

Wow! A Pope who's actually a Christian. :yes:

 

[Vouthon]

It should be added though that the Catholic Church is not short of a bob or two itself....

Pope Francis may be laying himself open to criticism given the Church's vast wealth.

It should be recalled nonetheless that the "wealth" so mentioned is not private wealth. It is rather public and ancient treasures of the Vatican City State (which is a sovereign entity under international law and a country in its own right despite its miniscule size) including priceless artwork by Da Vinci and other greats that is open to visitors and art students, archives going back a millennium that are open to scholars and university academics from around the globe and architectural wonders of the world such as St. Peters Basilica that are used for corporate worship by the faithful.

The treasures or art in the possession of the Catholic Church are not therefore the Pope's property, nor anyone else's to sell as they wish. These artefacts belong to the whole Catholic Church, not any individual.

None of this can be approximated with private wealth. Most of it was given to the church centuries ago by wealthy laity for public use, as gifts.

Every state, every institution owns buildings. It is just so happens that the Catholic Church is the oldest institution in the Western world and so has been gifted with many basilicas for worship and many pieces of art by talented Catholics.

Francis lives in a guesthouse and under a Jesuit vow of poverty. He leads an austere life. It is not his fault that his job description means he must "work" in a centuries-old basilica with beautiful artwork and utensils for public use.

Public treasures such as centuries-old artwork and altars are for the common good of the public, in this case Catholics who worship or visit cathedrals, the Vatican or else.

The Catholic Church is actually the world's largest non-governmental provider of healthcare and charity.

 

[Me Myself]

It should be added though that the Catholic Church is not short of a bob or two itself....

Pope Francis may be laying himself open to criticism given the Church's vast wealth.

Pope dosnt live in the vatican. Least not this one.

He also tries to drive comparatively inexpensive cars and tries to live in somewhat modest conditions.

Least thats what he said according to an interview of him I saw in ytube

 

[BSM1]

Well, the bible is largely anti-capitalistic; it denounces greed and materialism while encouraging sharing and giving alms.

You sure about that? Many of the parables cited by Yeshua had capitalists as the protagonists (land owners, vineyard owners, etc.) These capitalists were never portrayed in a bad light, they were applauded for giving jobs to workers as well as a healthy portion of their crops (profit) to others. Not sure you can show where capitalism is condemned in the Bible.

 

[Me Myself]

Id think more than condemned, there is emphasis on the need of the rich to take care of the poor, but also on the need for those who are provided work to do a good job.

The idea I would think, would be a mixture, in which a society has people generating jobs and working according to their abilities, but not earning so much that the poorest dint even have enough to eat.

I words of Mahatma Ghandi, there is enough to support everyone, but not enough for everyine to own a ferrari.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yay, Papa Francesco! :clap

 

[BSM1]

Id think more than condemned, there is emphasis on the need of the rich to take care of the poor, but also on the need for those who are provided work to do a good job.

The idea I would think, would be a mixture, in which a society has people generating jobs and working according to their abilities, but not earning so much that the poorest dint even have enough to eat.

I words of Mahatma Ghandi, there is enough to support everyone, but not enough for everyine to own a ferrari.

There is a big difference in those that have being charitable to those that may not have as much, then having those that produce and prosper being forced to take care of those that refuse to take responsibility for themselves. Anyway if there weren't those who are willing to take a chance we wouldn't have many "rich" people at all.

 

[Me Myself]

There is a big difference in those that have being charitable to those that may not have as much, then having those that produce and prosper being forced to take care of those that refuse to take responsibility for themselves. Anyway if there weren't those who are willing to take a chance we wouldn't have many "rich" people at all.

Yes there is, that is what i am talking about.

Thw Jesus of the bible clearly says in his parables he values poberty, he also says you must give as much as you can or all you can and even that which you cannot.

This doesnt go terribly in hand with having enough to eat in golden plates, or eat in those restaurants that literally serve you food with gold to eat, so you can %^*t gold and flush it out.

In his parables, the rich give job opportunity indeed, but they do give job opportunity and in any moment than anyone leaves anyone to rot or go hungry this person is seen in terible light, unless it has given the hungry person some opportunity.

So higher taxes for those whi have more is completely in line with Jesus's teachings. More than that , it is easy to see how Jesus puts every poor person under your responsibility, or in other words "because I was hungry and you did not fed me.."

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You sure about that? Many of the parables cited by Yeshua had capitalists as the protagonists (land owners, vineyard owners, etc.) These capitalists were never portrayed in a bad light, they were applauded for giving jobs to workers as well as a healthy portion of their crops (profit) to others. Not sure you can show where capitalism is condemned in the Bible.

Those were metaphors and the person in authority was actually God and the workers are the subjects of His Kingdom.

Capitalism and Christianity are not compatible. Jesus and the early disciples promoted forms of socialism or communism. Lets have a look at the lifestyle of the early Christians:

42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. - Acts 2:42-47


32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. - Acts 4:32-35

That is straight up communism - "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-christianity/2011/08/12/gIQAziaQBJ_blog.html

 

[Knight of Albion]

It should be recalled nonetheless that the "wealth" so mentioned is not private wealth. It is rather public and ancient treasures of the Vatican City State (which is a sovereign entity under international law and a country in its own right despite its miniscule size) including priceless artwork by Da Vinci and other greats that is open to visitors and art students, archives going back a millennium that are open to scholars and university academics from around the globe and architectural wonders of the world such as St. Peters Basilica that are used for corporate worship by the faithful.

The treasures or art in the possession of the Catholic Church are not therefore the Pope's property, nor anyone else's to sell as they wish. These artefacts belong to the whole Catholic Church, not any individual.

None of this can be approximated with private wealth. Most of it was given to the church centuries ago by wealthy laity for public use, as gifts.

Every state, every institution owns buildings. It is just so happens that the Catholic Church is the oldest institution in the Western world and so has been gifted with many basilicas for worship and many pieces of art by talented Catholics.

Francis lives in a guesthouse and under a Jesuit vow of poverty. He leads an austere life. It is not his fault that his job description means he must "work" in a centuries-old basilica with beautiful artwork and utensils for public use.

Public treasures such as centuries-old artwork and altars are for the common good of the public, in this case Catholics who worship or visit cathedrals, the Vatican or else.

The Catholic Church is actually the world's largest non-governmental provider of healthcare and charity.

Roman Catholic Church’s wealth impossible to calculate | National Post

 

[bobhikes]

The pope still has it wrong.

If there is a Roman Catholic God. The people to pity are the rich. It says so in the bible. The poor are going to be compensated by God. All those that suffer because of evil will be compensated.

All this about the young that die in horrible conditions, those dying brutally because of a horrible Dictator will all be in heaven with God.

The earth is the place where we toil to prove ourselves to God according to Roman Catholic scriptures. We are supposed to live selfless lives, caring for the poor and sick and then get our reward. Those that are getting their rewards in this life are the ones that need reforming and the popes help.

 

[BSM1]

Yes there is, that is what i am talking about.

Thw Jesus of the bible clearly says in his parables he values poberty, he also says you must give as much as you can or all you can and even that which you cannot.

This doesnt go terribly in hand with having enough to eat in golden plates, or eat in those restaurants that literally serve you food with gold to eat, so you can %^*t gold and flush it out.

In his parables, the rich give job opportunity indeed, but they do give job opportunity and in any moment than anyone leaves anyone to rot or go hungry this person is seen in terible light, unless it has given the hungry person some opportunity.

So higher taxes for those whi have more is completely in line with Jesus's teachings. More than that , it is easy to see how Jesus puts every poor person under your responsibility, or in other words "because I was hungry and you did not fed me.."

I understand what you're saying but, again, the difference is Biblically you do these things out of a sense of altruism. I can find nowhere in the teachings of Yeshua where he demands this be done through force or authority. BTW, what did Yeshua say about the poor when the disciples busted his chops about the expensive foot oil?