pope made homophobic slur

[Eddi]

I think we are losing sight of the issue:

Francis basically called gay men "******s"

If he called me a "******" to my face I may very well punch the old man out

And him using such language may incite homophobic attacks, both verbal and possibly even physical

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think we are losing sight of the issue:

Francis basically called gay men "******s"

If he called me a "******" to my face I may very well punch the old man out

And him using such language may incite homophobic attacks, both verbal and possibly even physical

I'm reminded of another papal quote:

And if someone does get offended? The Pope made reference to Alberto Gasbarri, a man who organizes papal trips and was then standing next to him on the plane.

“If Dr. Gasbarri, a great friend, says a swear word against my mother, then a punch awaits him,” Francis said. “It’s normal, it’s normal. One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people’s faith, one cannot make fun of faith.”

While making this comment, Vatican Radio reported that the pontiff “gestured with a pretend punch” directed at Gasbarri – an action many journalists interpreted as a joke.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/01/15/world/pope-francis-punch/index.html

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...
Are you trying to prevent LGBTQ people from living in peace? Are you trying to deny same-sex couples legal marriage rights? Are you trying to exclude gay men from an organization you lead or belong to?

The Catholic Church is doing all of these things.

The problem I have, and I am for those rights, is that they are not objective or with evidence. They are cultural constructs, but I can't tell how you view them?
Do you understand what I am trying to say? They are not facts and they vary across the world and history. They are a case of in effect cogntive, moral and cultural relatvism. I happen to believe in them, but I don't consider them true, universal or facts.
What about you?

 

[Koldo]

In case you somehow aren't aware, Catholic seminaries are male only. This is what Francis was talking about.

I am aware of that. And also aware that the end goal is to form priests. Thus leading back to what I stated.

 

[Rival]

I am aware of that. And also aware that the end goal is to form priests. Thus leading back to what I stated.

He was referring to barring gay men specifically.

 

[We Never Know]

Generally, I reserve terms like "homophobe" for those who try to hurt or exclude others based on their views.

I don't call people names if all they do is personally disagree with something as long as they don't do anything to interfere with other people's lives.



Which ones do you think are misapplied?



Are you trying to prevent LGBTQ people from living in peace? Are you trying to deny same-sex couples legal marriage rights? Are you trying to exclude gay men from an organization you lead or belong to?

The Catholic Church is doing all of these things.

I don't care for the word homophobe either.

This is me. Examples...

-if you are religious, don't push your religion on me
-if you are racist, don't push your racisim on me
-if you are a transgender, don't push your transgenderism on me
-etc etc

If I don't like or agree with religion, racism or transgenderism. It simply means I don't like it. It doesn't mean I hate the people.

Its up to me to decide what I like or don't like. Personal attacks by name calling doesn't make me look at things in a better light, it probably worsens the light.

 

[Rival]

The Catholic Church is doing all of these things.

I disagree that these things are 'homophobic'. That's my issue.

I don't believe they are being done out of hate, malice, or otherwise, as you yourself have pointed out with the reasoning behind this.

I think the word needs to be dropped wholesale as meaningless.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I disagree that these things are 'homophobic'. That's my issue.

I don't believe they are being done out of hate, malice, or otherwise, as you yourself have pointed out with the reasoning behind this.

I think the word needs to be dropped wholesale as meaningless.

It seems like hair-splitting to me to argue that harmful acts consistent with hatred might not qualify as actual hatred because the perpetrators might have other motivations for the harm they cause.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I disagree that these things are 'homophobic'. That's my issue.

I don't believe they are being done out of hate, malice, or otherwise, as you yourself have pointed out with the reasoning behind this.

I think the word needs to be dropped wholesale as meaningless.

No, I do think you can find at least one case of a person being homophobic, but it is overused to the point that to some it is a go to slur to win and feel rightous as far as I can tell.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It seems like hair-splitting to me to argue that harmful acts consistent with hatred might not qualify as actual hatred because the perpetrators might have other motivations for the harm they cause.

Well, yeah, but I think it matter if you want to describe what is actually going on.

 

[Rival]

It seems like hair-splitting to me to argue that harmful acts consistent with hatred might not qualify as actual hatred because the perpetrators might have other motivations for the harm they cause.

I disagree they are harmful.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I disagree they are harmful.

That is a bit more complicated than it might as first appear to be, but that is for another thread as far as I can tell.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

For those who didn't bother reading the article:

Some suggested the comments were an honest translation mistake for the Pope, for whom Italian is a second language, and that he 'did not know' how offensive the word was.

And the Pope has issued an apology for having made that honest translation. I think we should all be satisfied, forgive and move on.

I have been watching this man since the day of his election -- which I predicted among my friends -- and chose as his regnant name "Francis." That was an earth-shatteringly strong sign of not just winds of change within the Church, but sometimes hurricanes of it.

Watching him as closely as I have, I would never believe that he meant that remark in the way that it was taken -- that is just not who he is.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I disagree they are harmful.

The rights of marriage often matter most in times of crisis. Denying legal marriage to same-sex couples often amounts to kicking people when they're down.

In terms of LGBTQ issues generally, we've had Catholic school boards here object to anti-suicide and anti-bullying programs on religious grounds. Hopefully you can at least agree that suicide and bullying are harmful... can't you?

 

[Rival]

The rights of marriage often matter most in times of crisis. Denying legal marriage to same-sex couples often amounts to kicking people when they're down.

In terms of LGBTQ issues generally, we've had Catholic school boards here object to anti-suicide and anti-bullying programs on religious grounds. Hopefully you can at least agree that suicide and bullying are harmful... can't you?

Sure, but I'm confused as to why they'd be anti these things. The RCC has a very strong theology against suicide and I don't know anyone who is happy with bullying. What is the context of this, because I find this very weird.

Marriage is not a right, it is a privilege. It's also denied to close kin, minors, and divorcees in some instances. Marriage is denied sometimes cross-religiously too. Homosexuals aren't the only affected class, so I find this a rather arbitrary argument.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sure, but I'm confused as to why they'd be anti these things. The RCC has a very strong theology against suicide and I don't know anyone who is happy with bullying. What is the context of this, because I find this very weird.

A lot of the material focuses on tolerance for LGBTQ kids and building up their self-worth.

Marriage is not a right, it is a privilege. It's also denied to close kin, minors, and divorcees in some instances.

Who's denying marriage to divorcees (besides the Catholic Church)?

The issues around close kin and minors general relate to consent: entering a marriage requires full, informed consent. A child is legally incapable of this kind of consent. With close family members, at best the presence of undue influence compromises the ability for full consent and at worst, the relationship can be the result of grooming and abuse.

Marriage is denied sometimes cross-religiously too.

... which is BS, IMO.

I'm talking about secular marriage, which should be beyond the jurisdiction of any religious body.

Homosexuals aren't the only affected class, so I find this a rather arbitrary argument.

So you're okay with hurting same-sex couples on the grounds that other people get hurt, too?

 

[setarcos]

The pope made an horrendous homophobic slur

Vatican remains silent over Pope's alleged homophonic comments

The Pope (pictured today at a World Children's Day event in Rome) has not broken his silence after reports claimed he denounced the 'air of f*****ry' in the church

www.dailymail.co.uk

I'm not angry I'm disappointed

It sends out the wrong message, that such language is acceptable

He should have known better

Shame on him!

What isn't a homophobic slur if it shows dissention or disagreement with that lifestyle?
Homophobia has become a political ploy in my opinion with all kinds of people taking a nibble at it in order to serve their own personal agendas or vendettas. Every little disagreeing or disparaging remark made has become homophobic now. What exactly can one say anymore about anything that is in disagreement without it being labeled something or other phobic? Or does that just apply to the LGBTQALKJWCNAL+++ community?

Live and let live I say...let each one work out their own salvation but no one should have to worry about every distasteful remark someone might say which expresses their true opinion for fear of offending someone somewhere.

For the record I am against deliberate and consistent expressed opinions which endorse unnecessary violence, revenge or repression of individuals, groups, or specific societies. Let me be clear on that.

I'll probably get hate replies for these statements but I try not to hate anyone myself rather than congenially disagree with.
Heck I've got gay friends that I strongly disagree with, including their lifestyle but they certainly don't consider me homophobic....that I know of.

 

[Eddi]

lifestyle?

Homosexuality is not a "lifestyle" option

It is an innate sexual orientation

 

[Rival]

A lot of the material focuses on tolerance for LGBTQ kids and building up their self-worth.



Who's denying marriage to divorcees (besides the Catholic Church)?

The issues around close kin and minors general relate to consent: entering a marriage requires full, informed consent. A child is legally incapable of this kind of consent. With close family members, at best the presence of undue influence compromises the ability for full consent and at worst, the relationship can be the result of grooming and abuse.



... which is BS, IMO.

I'm talking about secular marriage, which should be beyond the jurisdiction of any religious body.




So you're okay with hurting same-sex couples on the grounds that other people get hurt, too?

I'm talking about the RCC and their marriage rules, which is the focus of the thread.

It has various rules on who can and can't marry, and it's not just homosexuals. So for this subgroup to feel particularly offended is rather bizarre.

You think certain rules are silly, granted, I obviously disagree; the RCC is allowed to set its own standards and if you wish to marry in this Church you must meet those standards.

It is not up to me or you what these standards are, no matter what you think of them.

Secular marriage is not a marriage imo so it's not meaningful to me.

 

[Rival]

I think we are losing sight of the issue:

Francis basically called gay men "******s"

If he called me a "******" to my face I may very well punch the old man out

And him using such language may incite homophobic attacks, both verbal and possibly even physical

It's been established it was likely a mistake/translation error.

Francis is not known for being anti-gay.