Porn Pastor

[Shadow Wolf]

Any time I've ever been accosted or sexually harassed or anything like that it's usually come from a "normal looking" fratboy *********. But I wouldn't presume anyone dressed preppy is a bad person. It's this whole judging books by covers thing that's a problem.

Very much so. Ted Bundy was a charmer, afterall. Jeffrey Dahmer was a clown. David Beckham is very well tattooed up and very generous when it comes to charity.

 

[DNB]

Not likely. But with that attitude it seems likely you will continue to make baseless, wrong, amd highly judgemental assumptions.

I don't care if people frown. I've not harmed them, but yes, I know they frown and stare and sneer. I moved out of Indiana because the people there make assumptions such as you are, and it makes life unpleasant to draw stares and expressions of shock and disgust just because you exist as you are.

What guilt? What choices?
I'm not the one claiming another will be an aggressor based on fantasy assumptions.
You are the Christian. You may want to read up on what Jesus said about judging others.

A Christian is a Christian because he recognizes his shortcomings. ...why is it always the non-Christians who think that they're harmless and great people?
Do you not think that I believe that I am a hypocrite? I don't love my neighbour as myself, nor do I love God with all my heart, mind and soul, etc, etc, etc...

 

[DNB]

You're a Christian. That's as cookie cutter and conventional as it gets here.

It's called wise, perceptive and humble - merely acknowledging where we stand with our Maker. There are some things that are beyond our control, that being rebellious about them only hurts ourselves.

 

[Meow Mix]

why is it always the non-Christians who think that they're harmless and great people?

What? My experience is the opposite.

 

[DNB]

I don't think everything is tell-tale. There is usually some sort of group of mainstream cultures in terms of dress and styling, and there are usually outlying cultures of dress and styling. I think it's as simple as that. It's like a bell curve. Kids might do alt stuff to try to be unique (thus the whole joke of conforming to nonconformity), but otherwise people do it simply because they're attracted to the styles, or to feel community with the people they're around.

I just put on a retro pin-up avatar before responding to this. Why? Well, because I'm silly with avatars, but I can make a point with it. I like the style. I have a lot of vintage and vintage-looking clothing. Does that say anything deep and profound about me? Of course not, it just means that I like a thing. The same thing goes for other means of presentation and expression.

If someone has a lot of tattoos, chances are they're just more associated with a subculture that values them as a means of expression. It doesn't make anyone impetuous or misguided, and this whole moralization of every little thing people do just leads to completely unnecessary judgmentalism. I would argue that judgmentalism is more of a vice than any of these things you're trying to pass unnecessary judgment on and trying to fill with nefarious meanings that just aren't there.

As for tattoos starting with gangs and sailors, so what? It doesn't matter where things originate or end. Makeup started with rich men, for instance. So what? Let people enjoy things, for crying out loud

I just want people to be practical, productive and decent to themselves and to others. I'd rather people didn't make the same mistakes that I made.
My point is about what one's outward appearance exudes, if one is a good judge of character, a very coveted attribute, it protects one and allows them to exploit an opportunity. One does not have to sleep with another, start a business together, get married, etc.., i.e. commit themselves to such a cumbersome degree, in order to find out who they are.
Everything is tell-tale, eg: show me the friends, and I'll show you the person. Show me the attire, and I'll show you the person. Show me the recreational habits, and I'll show you the person....
Again, this requires a rather profound insight, but it is definitely something to strive for.

 

[DNB]

Is complaining about choices other people make about things as simple as how they look or what they do with their bodies really a "cause" though? Or is that being a rebel without a cause?

People may simply disagree that every action and every choice has to be this whole spiritual, meaningful thing.

I have a tattoo of a cupcake on my wrist. Why? Because I like the silly thing

Well, MM, if it helps someone refrain from making the same mistakes that I did, then yes, it's a great and compassionate cause, absolutely.
Would you like me to come up with 50 better things that one can do with their time and money, rather than get tattoos?

 

[DNB]

@DNB I will also put it this way: there are a lot more people with tattoos, piercings, other "alt" looks that I would trust behind my back or trust with my property or even with my life than your run of the mill vanilla looking guys or gals.

I agree, ...once one gets to know them. But, all things being equal, I'd pick the straight-laced person implicitly.
Yes, I trust myself, tattoos and all, more than half the suits that I know. But, again, if I had nothing else to go on, au-naturale wins.

 

[Meow Mix]

I just want people to be practical, productive and decent to themselves and to others. I'd rather people didn't make the same mistakes that I made.
My point is about what one's outward appearance exudes, if one is a good judge of character, a very coveted attribute, it protects one and allows them to exploit an opportunity. One does not have to sleep with another, start a business together, get married, etc.., i.e. commit themselves to such a cumbersome degree, in order to find out who they are.
Everything is tell-tale, eg: show me the friends, and I'll show you the person. Show me the attire, and I'll show you the person. Show me the recreational habits, and I'll show you the person....
Again, this requires a rather profound insight, but it is definitely something to strive for.

I think it just leads you down unnecessarily judgmental paths, which is a form of ignorance. "Don't judge a book by its cover" is an idiom for a reason.

What would you think of me if you passed me on the street? Piercings, tattoos, all of it? Alt attire, like maybe a vintage blouse with distressed pants? Then perhaps you find that recreationally I play pool in hole in the wall urban dive bars? You wouldn't know anything about me regardless of what you think you would.

 

[Meow Mix]

I agree, ...once one gets to know them. But, all things being equal, I'd pick the straight-laced person implicitly.
Yes, I trust myself, tattoos and all, more than half the suits that I know. But, again, if I had nothing else to go on, au-naturale wins.

But why? If anecdotally the people you've ever had to watch out for were the straight-laced ones (that's definitely my experience)... why? What logic are you operating on?

 

[Meow Mix]

Well, MM, if it helps someone refrain from making the same mistakes that I did, then yes, it's a great and compassionate cause, absolutely.
Would you like me to come up with 50 better things that one can do with their time and money, rather than get tattoos?

That you even think there's a "better thing" to do than something someone wants to do shows the error of your thinking. It's not a zero sum game of time and money. It's expression.

It's like telling the artist after working on their canvas, "I can think of 50 things you could have done rather than buying those paints and taking the time to put them there." The artist isn't going to care.

 

[DNB]

What? My experience is the opposite.

Well, by definition, a Christian is a sinner in need of repentance and a Saviour. Therefore, we have a monopoly on humility.
....just kidding. ...but, there is that inherent conviction within Christianity, Christ is your Lord, or he is not (he's not God btw, just to emphasize the required humility).
Thus, you'll be hard pressed to find a Christian who, at least as a testimony, will not call themselves a sinner. But, yes also, they can be the most self-righteous (if that is what you meant).
...that's more a pretentious hypocrite, rather than a convicted Christian though.

 

[Meow Mix]

Well, by definition, a Christian is a sinner in need of repentance and a Saviour. Therefore, we have a monopoly on humility.
....just kidding. ...but, there is that inherent conviction within Christianity, Christ is your Lord, or he is not (he's not God btw, just to emphasize the required humility).
Thus, you'll be hard pressed to find a Christian who, at least as a testimony, will not call themselves a sinner. But, yes also, they can be the most self-righteous (if that is what you meant).
...that's more a pretentious hypocrite, rather than a convicted Christian though.

Sure, but I think you'll find humble non-religious people, too. I don't think either has a leg up on humility. There's some of either kind in both camps.

For instance in social justice circles I am constantly hearing amazing things like "I'm still learning" and "I have to unlearn a lot of things to try to be a good person."

 

[DNB]

I think it just leads you down unnecessarily judgmental paths, which is a form of ignorance. "Don't judge a book by its cover" is an idiom for a reason.

What would you think of me if you passed me on the street? Piercings, tattoos, all of it? Alt attire, like maybe a vintage blouse with distressed pants? Then perhaps you find that recreationally I play pool in hole in the wall urban dive bars? You wouldn't know anything about me regardless of what you think you would.

Yes, agreed, I'd have you incorrectly sized-up in your totality. But, on the other hand, I would've call you a party-girl, and all that that entails. So, in that respect, my impression of you would've been accurate to some degree, judging by all the characteristics that you cited (not the clothes at all).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's called wise, perceptive and humble - merely acknowledging where we stand with our Maker. There are some things that are beyond our control, that being rebellious about them only hurts ourselves.

Rebellious is who I am.

A Christian is a Christian because he recognizes his shortcomings. ...why is it always the non-Christians who think that they're harmless and great people?
Do you not think that I believe that I am a hypocrite? I don't love my neighbour as myself, nor do I love God with all my heart, mind and soul, etc, etc, etc...

I am overall pretty harmless. This comes with decades of supporting evidence. Real violence upsets and unnerves me and I do not like it. I even feel guilt eating meat because of the violence and death inherent in meat consumption. If I have to defend myself I will, but it isn't something I want nor do I find pleasure in it.
I also know my short comings. But, obviously, I am not a Christian. Without being one I strive to improve bad traits (like anger) while improving the good (like learning new things). We don't need a god or religion to know helping others is a good thing, and we shouldn't steal or tell lies.

 

[DNB]

But why? If anecdotally the people you've ever had to watch out for were the straight-laced ones (that's definitely my experience)... why? What logic are you operating on?

No, suits were just an brief example of the antithetical aspect of how people come off. But, on a larger scale, the nerds and wholesome ones are less adventurous, audacious and brazen.

 

[Meow Mix]

Yes, agreed, I'd have you incorrectly sized-up in your totality. But, on the other hand, I would've call you a party-girl, and all that that entails. So, in that respect, my impression of you would've been accurate to some degree, judging by all the characteristics that you cited (not the clothes at all).

I guess; and I am to an extent. But I hold down a full time job, I'm bridging a PhD as we speak, what you wouldn't know is that I do philosophy recreationally and send 10% biweekly to local and international causes and volunteer my time on the holidays to help the needy (this feels like bragging, which is gross, but I'm just trying to make a point). And so do those that I spend my time with around me. Wouldn't your picture be totally wrong where it matters? So what with the "party girl" aspects, right?

 

[Meow Mix]

No, suits were just an brief example of the antithetical aspect of how people come off. But, on a larger scale, the nerds and wholesome ones are less adventurous, audacious and brazen.

I have no idea in what context you're saying "nerd" and "wholesome" then, because all of my friends and myself are nerds, and I would call us wholesome.

 

[DNB]

That you even think there's a "better thing" to do than something someone wants to do shows the error of your thinking. It's not a zero sum game of time and money. It's expression.

It's like telling the artist after working on their canvas, "I can think of 50 things you could have done rather than buying those paints and taking the time to put them there." The artist isn't going to care.

Like i said, if you're wearing it, you ain't living it'. It's a false testimony to who you are. A canvas lasts for others to enjoy, it is not an irreversible process, it proves nothing, very few others get any fulfilment out of it, ... but, if I learnt to play guitar, that's a skillset that overlaps into other disciplines, and allows many others to be both inspired, and to enjoy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My point is about what one's outward appearance exudes, if one is a good judge of character, a very coveted attribute, it protects one and allows them to exploit an opportunity. One does not have to sleep with another, start a business together, get married, etc.., i.e. commit themselves to such a cumbersome degree, in order to find out who they are.
Everything is tell-tale, eg: show me the friends, and I'll show you the person. Show me the attire, and I'll show you the person. Show me the recreational habits, and I'll show you the person....
Again, this requires a rather profound insight, but it is definitely something to strive for.

Why would you make such judgments? Have you not heard appearances can be deceiving? Even Jesus says to judge not, and he was fond of hanging out with people who would probably fail your test. They weren't prim and proper, they weren't of high repute, and he himself was a long haired beggar.
People judging by appearances is why a part of why I left Indiana. I left behind friends and family and left the only home I'd known because people who judge those who have non-mainstream appearances made life unbearable and miserable. Christians acting on the same principles as you, and it drove me away.
All it tells me is they hate Jesus. They mistreat the least among them, and that is how they treat Jesus.

 

[DNB]

Sure, but I think you'll find humble non-religious people, too. I don't think either has a leg up on humility. There's some of either kind in both camps.

For instance in social justice circles I am constantly hearing amazing things like "I'm still learning" and "I have to unlearn a lot of things to try to be a good person."

Yes, understood, ....but, will they call themselves a coward, depraved and a hypocrite the way that I will about myself? This is extremely rare outside of Christian circles, if existent at all.
...and, yes, I can prove what i said about myself.